Comments on: Winning the War of Ideas: How Can We Best Support Liberal Islam?

By: domajot

domajot — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:23:46 +0000

Montedoro-

You are presuming to define what Islam is – something only Muslims can rightfully to.

Islam, at any given moment, is defined by how the Koran is interpreted and how its teachings are put intp practise- exactly like Christianity is defined by how the Bible is interpreted and its teachings put into practise

Neither religion, nor any of its subgroups, has been static over the centuries. They evolve and change and go through phases. Both religions depend on the cultural societal beliefs of its members, and especially its leaders, for interpretation and application.

Because of this, Chritianliy has evelved dramatically over time, while many within it are still at loggerheads over interpretation and application. This was so even as the books of the New Testament were being written. First Christianity was for Jews, then it embraced converts, and then it made converts superior to Jews, all as the milieux the practical necessities of the day and cultural contexts changed.

The same is true for Islam. Its history is replete with phases and divisiona. When someone pretends to define Islam, the necessary follow-up question is: which Islam?

To denomstrate the disconnect that can exist between the written word in a sacred text and the practice of a religion. it is only necessary to read Jesus’s words ‘turn the other cheek’ and then listen when Christian nations poclaim theri allegience to God as they set off to smite the enemy in war after war after war after war.

If Christians can cherry pick among different verses in the Bible to justify their current actions as being particulary ‘Christian’, then the same privilege should apply to Muslims. They, in like manner, can cherry pick among the sections of the Koran that they need. When they do, they define the Islam that is true for them, while others pick different quotations and arrive at a different Islam.

Therefore, I not only disagree wtih your conclusionas, I disagree with the rationale leading to those conclusions.

By: Montedoro

Montedoro — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:34:49 +0000

We might be able to support Moderate Moslems, but there is no way that we can support “moderate Islam” — because there is only one Islam, based on the Koran and the Sunnah, and that Islam is NOT moderate. “Moderate Moslems”, even if they can be defined and identified (which is a very subjective exercise), cannot reform Islamic theology. As long as the basic premise of Islam is that the Koran is the literal word of Allah — complete, perfect, immutable and valid for all of eternity — there is no way to reform it. In fact, even the thought of reform is a logical absurdity: how can you reform something that is already considered complete and perfect?
True moderate Moslems are trapped in a great, insoluble dilemma: On the one hand, they very much want Islam to be compatible with modern values as enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. On the other hand, there is no way to square those UDHR values with Islam as defined by the Koran and the Hadith. That is why ALL Moslem-majority countries have rejected the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and created their own Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam which makes all rights dependent on the sharia. All we can expect from truly “moderate Moslems” is that they go about their civilized lives in silent disobedience to the dictates of the Koran and the Hadith.

By: domajot

domajot — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:11:34 +0000

In view of the Banladesh cyclone, It occurs to me that disaster relief would be an excellent idea, whenever and wherever it occurs.
The aftermath of the tsunami effort was very positive.
The US health care effort re AIDS and other diseases is having a positive effect in Africa.

Once the population is given an opportunity to see that we do more than just bomb and wage wars, they mey stop seening the US as the devil. That dimishes the arguments of the extremists.
Eventually, they might begin to question what the extremists have to offer other than a place in paradise.

By: Rudi

Rudi — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:50:55 +0000

DJ – Since 9-11 we in the US are blocking students and harassing tourists in Boston. The immigration debate, a Republican focus, won’t help the situation either. When radicals in Bangladesh, Lebanon and Gaza put put hospitals and housing, our work is going to be more difficult. The ~~GWOT~~GWOSM(Dan Pipes) also makes it worse.

By: domajot

domajot — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:22:01 +0000

I also think that direct air or support could be the kiss of death to moderate Muslim groups.
The indirects route, as the post outlines, is more difficult, more long term and frought with its own dangers. Free expression covers free expression by jihadi propogandists, as well.

I’ve often thought, although I don’t know how this could be accompliehed, that giving Muslims more access to secular education would be a powerful moderating force.