Comments on: Center of Attention http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:05:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: University Update - Iraq - Center of Attention http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104972 University Update - Iraq - Center of Attention Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:50:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104972 [...] House Center of Attention » This Summary is from an article posted at The Moderate Voice » Domestic and international news [...] [...] House Center of Attention » This Summary is from an article posted at The Moderate Voice » Domestic and international news [...]

]]> By: Ro http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104971 Ro Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:46:09 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104971 Pete -- Thanks for the clarification. I know I have a lot to learn about all sides of the argument as well. My only background with the farm bill is the literature and accompanying hippy talk I acquired while helping out in the gardens of co-op living situations in Berkeley, which is just about as liberal an environment as you can get. My assumption was, therefore, that liberals thought all farm subsidies were bad. Pete — Thanks for the clarification. I know I have a lot to learn about all sides of the argument as well. My only background with the farm bill is the literature and accompanying hippy talk I acquired while helping out in the gardens of co-op living situations in Berkeley, which is just about as liberal an environment as you can get. My assumption was, therefore, that liberals thought all farm subsidies were bad.

]]> By: Pete Abel http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104970 Pete Abel Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:18:53 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104970 Ro, I was surprised because I have generally made two sets of (admittedly unfair and simplistic) assumptions. FIRST SET A) Those who support subsidies for farmers do so because they see it as a form of social justice B) Those who support social justice would consistently view farm subsidies as good SECOND SET A) Opposition to farm-subsidies has been a longstanding cornerstone of the U.S. conversative movement. (Barry Goldwater devoted an entire chapter of <em>Conscience of a Conservative</em> to a tirade on the subject.) B) If conservatives are generally anti-farm-subsidy, progressives must generally be pro-farm-subsidy. Hence, what surprised me (in the end) was not so much Wallis' position, but my own inability to think beyond a very narrow scope. Net: I was ultimately surprised at my own ignorance. Ro,

I was surprised because I have generally made two sets of (admittedly unfair and simplistic) assumptions.

FIRST SET

A) Those who support subsidies for farmers do so because they see it as a form of social justice

B) Those who support social justice would consistently view farm subsidies as good

SECOND SET

A) Opposition to farm-subsidies has been a longstanding cornerstone of the U.S. conversative movement. (Barry Goldwater devoted an entire chapter of Conscience of a Conservative to a tirade on the subject.)

B) If conservatives are generally anti-farm-subsidy, progressives must generally be pro-farm-subsidy.

Hence, what surprised me (in the end) was not so much Wallis’ position, but my own inability to think beyond a very narrow scope. Net: I was ultimately surprised at my own ignorance.

]]> By: Ro http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104965 Ro Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:00:38 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104965 Hi Pete -- perhaps I'm not understanding or perhaps this line was incorrectly written: "Hence, I was surprised to learn of his opposition to certain farm subsidies." Isn't the current farm bill responsible for the glut of cheap corn, cotton, etc, which is here (US) pushing out lots of small-time farmers growing anything else and worldwide negatively affecting farmers of the subsidized goods? Not to mention making the crap corn-based food much cheaper than healthier food? It seems to me very much in the interest of quelling poverty to oppose a lot of the current farm bill. Could you clarify? Hi Pete — perhaps I’m not understanding or perhaps this line was incorrectly written: “Hence, I was surprised to learn of his opposition to certain farm subsidies.” Isn’t the current farm bill responsible for the glut of cheap corn, cotton, etc, which is here (US) pushing out lots of small-time farmers growing anything else and worldwide negatively affecting farmers of the subsidized goods? Not to mention making the crap corn-based food much cheaper than healthier food? It seems to me very much in the interest of quelling poverty to oppose a lot of the current farm bill. Could you clarify?

]]> By: Rudi http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104963 Rudi Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:54:16 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104963 The text from the evangelical deserves a repeat. <blockquote> Who allowed our country to succumb to such fear and moral cowardice that we parse the the meaning and definition of "torture?" I blame myself, and implicate my fellow Christians. We have remained silent and treated an issue once considered unthinkable--the acceptability of torture--like a concept worthy of honest debate. But there is no room for debate: torture is immoral and should be clearly and forcefully denounced. We continue to shame ourselves and our Creator by refusing to speak out against such outrages to human dignity. ... As Christians we must never condone the use of methods that threaten to undermine the inherent dignity of the person created in the image of God. ... There is something clearly repugnant about our unwillingness to distance ourselves from the fear-driven utilitarians willing to embrace the use of torture. </blockquote> The text from the evangelical deserves a repeat.

Who allowed our country to succumb to such fear and moral cowardice that we parse the the meaning and definition of “torture?”

I blame myself, and implicate my fellow Christians. We have remained silent and treated an issue once considered unthinkable–the acceptability of torture–like a concept worthy of honest debate. But there is no room for debate: torture is immoral and should be clearly and forcefully denounced. We continue to shame ourselves and our Creator by refusing to speak out against such outrages to human dignity.

…

As Christians we must never condone the use of methods that threaten to undermine the inherent dignity of the person created in the image of God. … There is something clearly repugnant about our unwillingness to distance ourselves from the fear-driven utilitarians willing to embrace the use of torture.

]]> By: Sam http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104954 Sam Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:15:45 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104954 I really dug that except from the evangelical on the use of torture. Especially the part where its use somehow became an actual topic of debate instead of reflexively denounced. I really dug that except from the evangelical on the use of torture. Especially the part where its use somehow became an actual topic of debate instead of reflexively denounced.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104950 DLS Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:03:11 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104950 Related to Rice: Chevron is <a href="http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200711141231DOWJONESDJONLINE000818_FORTUNE5.htm" rel="nofollow">settling its Food For Oil case</a>. (Go, Shaun, go.) Oops. Drug testing of the crew that spilled oil in the Bay was <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/14/BAFETCBQT.DTL" rel="nofollow">delayed and incomplete</a>. (Go, Shaun, go.) Related to Rice: Chevron is settling its Food For Oil case. (Go, Shaun, go.)

Oops. Drug testing of the crew that spilled oil in the Bay was delayed and incomplete. (Go, Shaun, go.)

]]> By: My Personal Blog » Center of Attention http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104949 My Personal Blog » Center of Attention Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:58:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104949 [...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerpt [IMG balancing_act.jpg] A weekly round up of recent commentary by assorted voices who either attempt to strike a balanced note on heated debates and controversial issues, or improve our ability to find our own sense of balance by exposing us to new information and different points-of-view. ————————– Writing at Balloon Juice, Michael D. offers an immigration proposal. While that proposal won’t delight everyone, please remember the first half of our screening criterion for CoA, namely: to feat [...] [...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerpt [IMG balancing_act.jpg] A weekly round up of recent commentary by assorted voices who either attempt to strike a balanced note on heated debates and controversial issues, or improve our ability to find our own sense of balance by exposing us to new information and different points-of-view. ————————– Writing at Balloon Juice, Michael D. offers an immigration proposal. While that proposal won’t delight everyone, please remember the first half of our screening criterion for CoA, namely: to feat [...]

]]> By: Pete Abel http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104948 Pete Abel Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:57:52 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104948 Shaun, Good to know. My bad for assuming and not checking first. Also, kudo's on that Air Force post. It definitely forced me to re-think certain assumptions, and that's one of the reasons I'm proud to be associated with you, other TMV authors, and of course, our readers. All of you challenge my comfort zone. Shaun,

Good to know. My bad for assuming and not checking first. Also, kudo’s on that Air Force post. It definitely forced me to re-think certain assumptions, and that’s one of the reasons I’m proud to be associated with you, other TMV authors, and of course, our readers. All of you challenge my comfort zone.

]]> By: Shaun Mullen http://themoderatevoice.com/16097/center-of-attention-149/comment-page-1/#comment-104946 Shaun Mullen Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:46:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/center-of-attention/16097/center-of-attention-149/#comment-104946 <em>Pete:</em> I would not "wince" at being mentioned in the same breath with General Petraeus. In fact, I'm flattered as someone who did his share of KP in the Army. All in all, Petraeus has done a terric job and is spot on in saying the counterinsurgency is "armed social work." But every innocent civilian that is taken out in an Air Force strike sets that effort back. Pete:

I would not “wince” at being mentioned in the same breath with General Petraeus. In fact, I’m flattered as someone who did his share of KP in the Army.

All in all, Petraeus has done a terric job and is spot on in saying the counterinsurgency is “armed social work.” But every innocent civilian that is taken out in an Air Force strike sets that effort back.

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