Comments on: The Saudi Question http://themoderatevoice.com/16028/the-saudi-question/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 04:43:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Swaraaj Chauhan http://themoderatevoice.com/16028/the-saudi-question/comment-page-1/#comment-104497 Swaraaj Chauhan Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:11:38 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/saudi-arabia/16028/the-saudi-question/#comment-104497 I would tend to agree with Dave Schuler. Saudis are equally proud as the Americans, probably more so, and don't like to be lectured or coerced. The nuances of a dialogue with the Saudis have to be as subtle and clever as with the Chinese. This calls for long term engagement and understanding of the complicated decision-making process in Saudi Arabia. I don't think that Saudi King is a sole decision maker in the mould of President Bush and his coterie. Saudis take a long time in making up their minds and the process involves layers of discussion in a cool and calm manner (not the sledge-hammer approach as witnessed in Iraq and Afghanistan). Like Iraq and other Arab countries, Saudi Arabia has witnessed in the past violent and bloody fights between different tribes, etc, within their own countries. The present Saudi dynasty has brought about some sanity by subduing the warring factions through a sword - as shown in the Saudi flag. The warring factions now live amicably and their character has somewhat changed when Saudi economy started booming. If artificial changes are brought about in the style of functioning of the regime there is no guarantee that old rivalries and feuds do not surface again in a virulent manner - as happened in Iraq after the forced departure of Saddam Hussein. It is nice for all of us to dream of a world where democratic institutions flourish in all countries. Yes, but we have to be patient. Unfortunately, this laudable desire of the Western nations (and its intellectuals) has recently become suspicious with the US administration itself supporting and funding dictators and taking steps inimical to the development of democracies in some countries. Saudi Arabia has been suspicious of US motives for decades...and the latter's role in Iraq and Afghanistan has really complicated the situation. I don't think that President Bush and his coterie would generate any confidence. We have to wait for the next President of the United States to get into the White House before any steps can be taken to persuade Saudis to change their way of life. Dave Schuler is correct. <blockquote>Meanwhile, as he says, "we should gently nudge the Saudis towards economic liberalization first in a sort of Chinese model relying primarily on carrots rather than sticks and supporting liberal elements in the society as it’s possible, hoping to cultivate stable liberal institutions as a foundation on which to base a decent representative government."</blockquote> I would tend to agree with Dave Schuler. Saudis are equally proud as the Americans, probably more so, and don’t like to be lectured or coerced. The nuances of a dialogue with the Saudis have to be as subtle and clever as with the Chinese.

This calls for long term engagement and understanding of the complicated decision-making process in Saudi Arabia.

I don’t think that Saudi King is a sole decision maker in the mould of President Bush and his coterie.

Saudis take a long time in making up their minds and the process involves layers of discussion in a cool and calm manner (not the sledge-hammer approach as witnessed in Iraq and Afghanistan).

Like Iraq and other Arab countries, Saudi Arabia has witnessed in the past violent and bloody fights between different tribes, etc, within their own countries.

The present Saudi dynasty has brought about some sanity by subduing the warring factions through a sword – as shown in the Saudi flag. The warring factions now live amicably and their character has somewhat changed when Saudi economy started booming.

If artificial changes are brought about in the style of functioning of the regime there is no guarantee that old rivalries and feuds do not surface again in a virulent manner – as happened in Iraq after the forced departure of Saddam Hussein.

It is nice for all of us to dream of a world where democratic institutions flourish in all countries. Yes, but we have to be patient.

Unfortunately, this laudable desire of the Western nations (and its intellectuals) has recently become suspicious with the US administration itself supporting and funding dictators and taking steps inimical to the development of democracies in some countries.

Saudi Arabia has been suspicious of US motives for decades…and the latter’s role in Iraq and Afghanistan has really complicated the situation.

I don’t think that President Bush and his coterie would generate any confidence. We have to wait for the next President of the United States to get into the White House before any steps can be taken to persuade Saudis to change their way of life.

Dave Schuler is correct.

Meanwhile, as he says, “we should gently nudge the Saudis towards economic liberalization first in a sort of Chinese model relying primarily on carrots rather than sticks and supporting liberal elements in the society as it’s possible, hoping to cultivate stable liberal institutions as a foundation on which to base a decent representative government.”

]]> By: Dave Schuler http://themoderatevoice.com/16028/the-saudi-question/comment-page-1/#comment-104476 Dave Schuler Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:25:03 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/saudi-arabia/16028/the-saudi-question/#comment-104476 I have to say that I disagree categorically with the idea of representative government in Saudi Arabia <b>as the first</b> step. Since the KSA is almost completely lacking in liberal institutions and the Sauds and virulently anti-Western Wahhabi clerics in tag team have taught hate for so long, a more representative government would then be one which, unlike the Sauds who'll either look the other way in the face of support on the part of its wealthy citizens for radical Islamist violence or enact reforms with geological slowness, would support radical Islamist violence and not produce liberal reforms at all. I think that we should gently nudge the Saudi towards economic liberalization first in a sort of Chinese model relying primarily on carrots rather than sticks and supporting liberal elements in the society as it's possible, hoping to cultivate stable liberal institutions as a foundation on which to base a decent representative government. I have to say that I disagree categorically with the idea of representative government in Saudi Arabia as the first step. Since the KSA is almost completely lacking in liberal institutions and the Sauds and virulently anti-Western Wahhabi clerics in tag team have taught hate for so long, a more representative government would then be one which, unlike the Sauds who’ll either look the other way in the face of support on the part of its wealthy citizens for radical Islamist violence or enact reforms with geological slowness, would support radical Islamist violence and not produce liberal reforms at all.

I think that we should gently nudge the Saudi towards economic liberalization first in a sort of Chinese model relying primarily on carrots rather than sticks and supporting liberal elements in the society as it’s possible, hoping to cultivate stable liberal institutions as a foundation on which to base a decent representative government.

]]>