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	<title>Comments on: Musharraf&#8217;s Crackdown</title>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-104331</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/pakistan/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/#comment-104331</guid>
		<description>The worst part of Mushraff&#039;s actions is that he is closing off the steam valve, the means by which people can express frustrations without violence.

Once again, our administration expresses the right ideals by using the wrong language.  The bad boys in  power aren&#039;t swayed when we talk down to them as if they were errant children (&#039;I told Musharaff to do such and such&quot;) . That&#039;s guaranteed to just stiffen theri resolve and defiance.  No one wants to be someone else&#039;s lackey  especially not America&#039;s lackey.  
In his book, Mushraff clearly expresses his resentment at being given orders instead of being &#039;consulted&#039; after 9/11  That resentment may well be contributing to his deaf ear today.

It isn&#039;t just Bush, BTW.  All the candidates brag about what they would tell Iran or some other 
country to do.
It&#039;s my belied that you can give orders much more effectively if you give the other guy a chance to retain his  dignity (in public, at least) and phrase the order in terms of making a deal, with  consequences on which you can deliver instead of  threats  on which you may not be able to deliver.

By far more impressive would be a statement explaining why such actions are detrimantal and a danger to stability progress and justice( the democracy theme is much too tainted, thanks to Iraq), and why it&#039;s important to the US and the rest 
of the world

Then we&#039;ve got to scramble to find some consequences that won&#039;t totally ruin a deal but that would make an imprssion.  Not all the aid we give Pakistan is used directly for fighitng the Taliban and Al Qaeda.  Carrots could include help in civic institution building. for example.

We are between a rock and hard place in Pakistan.
Melodramatic posturing won&#039;t help on its own.
This will take some  carefyk inesssing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The worst part of Mushraff&#8217;s actions is that he is closing off the steam valve, the means by which people can express frustrations without violence.</p>
<p>Once again, our administration expresses the right ideals by using the wrong language.  The bad boys in  power aren&#8217;t swayed when we talk down to them as if they were errant children (&#8217;I told Musharaff to do such and such&#8221;) . That&#8217;s guaranteed to just stiffen theri resolve and defiance.  No one wants to be someone else&#8217;s lackey  especially not America&#8217;s lackey.<br />
In his book, Mushraff clearly expresses his resentment at being given orders instead of being &#8216;consulted&#8217; after 9/11  That resentment may well be contributing to his deaf ear today.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t just Bush, BTW.  All the candidates brag about what they would tell Iran or some other<br />
country to do.<br />
It&#8217;s my belied that you can give orders much more effectively if you give the other guy a chance to retain his  dignity (in public, at least) and phrase the order in terms of making a deal, with  consequences on which you can deliver instead of  threats  on which you may not be able to deliver.</p>
<p>By far more impressive would be a statement explaining why such actions are detrimantal and a danger to stability progress and justice( the democracy theme is much too tainted, thanks to Iraq), and why it&#8217;s important to the US and the rest<br />
of the world</p>
<p>Then we&#8217;ve got to scramble to find some consequences that won&#8217;t totally ruin a deal but that would make an imprssion.  Not all the aid we give Pakistan is used directly for fighitng the Taliban and Al Qaeda.  Carrots could include help in civic institution building. for example.</p>
<p>We are between a rock and hard place in Pakistan.<br />
Melodramatic posturing won&#8217;t help on its own.<br />
This will take some  carefyk inesssing</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-104300</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/pakistan/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/#comment-104300</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;totally unable &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Doesn&#039;t this phrase in practice assume he&#039;s actually trying as hard as he can?  I believe he isn&#039;t!

&lt;blockquote&gt;But rhetoric from Washington instead of yanking our money from under him seems a weak gesture&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suspect the likely alternative to him is feared.  (Can Bhutto tame the terrorists, or would they kill her quickly or at least remove her government?)

What can we do promptly that improves the situation there, promptly?  That means with respect to security and stability, not just to human rights.

&lt;blockquote&gt;What I would give for a bit of honesty. Like, â€œHey, we hate Bin Laden so much we will side with bastards as long as they help us get him.â€ &lt;/blockquote&gt;

It also wouldn&#039;t bother me in the least and I suspect it wouldn&#039;t bother most Americans if, were we to locate bin Laden, we&#039;d go into Pakistan and get him ourselves, without securing the government&#039;s permission there first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>totally unable </p></blockquote>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t this phrase in practice assume he&#8217;s actually trying as hard as he can?  I believe he isn&#8217;t!</p>
<blockquote><p>But rhetoric from Washington instead of yanking our money from under him seems a weak gesture</p></blockquote>
<p>I suspect the likely alternative to him is feared.  (Can Bhutto tame the terrorists, or would they kill her quickly or at least remove her government?)</p>
<p>What can we do promptly that improves the situation there, promptly?  That means with respect to security and stability, not just to human rights.</p>
<blockquote><p>What I would give for a bit of honesty. Like, â€œHey, we hate Bin Laden so much we will side with bastards as long as they help us get him.â€ </p></blockquote>
<p>It also wouldn&#8217;t bother me in the least and I suspect it wouldn&#8217;t bother most Americans if, were we to locate bin Laden, we&#8217;d go into Pakistan and get him ourselves, without securing the government&#8217;s permission there first.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-104299</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/pakistan/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/#comment-104299</guid>
		<description>And about your point on the US&#039;s official opinion, if that opinion makes one whit of difference in the outcome in Pakistan I&#039;ll happily eat my words.   But rhetoric from Washington instead of yanking our money from under him seems a weak gesture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And about your point on the US&#8217;s official opinion, if that opinion makes one whit of difference in the outcome in Pakistan I&#8217;ll happily eat my words.   But rhetoric from Washington instead of yanking our money from under him seems a weak gesture.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-104298</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/pakistan/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/#comment-104298</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t like the hypocrisy.   Why are we meddling at all?  We aren&#039;t going to keep him in power if he can&#039;t handle it himself, we keep talking about him like he&#039;s some valuable ally when he&#039;s totally unable to help us root out Bin Laden in the Pashtun areas, and now he&#039;s showing his dictator stripes while Bush makes speeches about how we defend freedom and democracy.   

What I would give for a bit of honesty.   Like, &quot;Hey, we hate Bin Laden so much we will side with bastards as long as they help us get him.&quot;   I can appreciate that sentiment.   What we get instead makes me nauseous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t like the hypocrisy.   Why are we meddling at all?  We aren&#8217;t going to keep him in power if he can&#8217;t handle it himself, we keep talking about him like he&#8217;s some valuable ally when he&#8217;s totally unable to help us root out Bin Laden in the Pashtun areas, and now he&#8217;s showing his dictator stripes while Bush makes speeches about how we defend freedom and democracy.   </p>
<p>What I would give for a bit of honesty.   Like, &#8220;Hey, we hate Bin Laden so much we will side with bastards as long as they help us get him.&#8221;   I can appreciate that sentiment.   What we get instead makes me nauseous.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-104289</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/pakistan/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/#comment-104289</guid>
		<description>The official US position is against, not for, the crackdown.  Do not substitute wishes or Bush-bashing for facts.  (I&#039;ve seen enough of that elsewhere on this site already.)  Also, as with Musharraf, so with the Saudis -- the USA has normally been supportive in large part not only because of oil (Saudis) interests, but because the alternatives would likely be worse.  We cannot expect to wave a magic wand and yippee, everyone will be all happy and joyful and free and prosperous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The official US position is against, not for, the crackdown.  Do not substitute wishes or Bush-bashing for facts.  (I&#8217;ve seen enough of that elsewhere on this site already.)  Also, as with Musharraf, so with the Saudis &#8212; the USA has normally been supportive in large part not only because of oil (Saudis) interests, but because the alternatives would likely be worse.  We cannot expect to wave a magic wand and yippee, everyone will be all happy and joyful and free and prosperous.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-104282</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 22:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/pakistan/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/#comment-104282</guid>
		<description>And once again America is siding with an expedient dictator while &quot;fighting the good fight&quot; against a larger enemy.   During the cold war I can understand that, the stakes were nothing less than nuclear war between two superpowers.    But now?   Despite Bush&#039;s hollow words about combating tyranny and promoting freedom he has gotten deep in bed with one.    One whose promises of fighting terrorism are equally as hollow as Bush&#039;s on values and freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And once again America is siding with an expedient dictator while &#8220;fighting the good fight&#8221; against a larger enemy.   During the cold war I can understand that, the stakes were nothing less than nuclear war between two superpowers.    But now?   Despite Bush&#8217;s hollow words about combating tyranny and promoting freedom he has gotten deep in bed with one.    One whose promises of fighting terrorism are equally as hollow as Bush&#8217;s on values and freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: hanginjohnny</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-104277</link>
		<dc:creator>hanginjohnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 22:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/pakistan/15975/musharrafs-crackdown/#comment-104277</guid>
		<description>Call a spade a spade, it&#039;s Martial Law despite the media&#039;s softballing of an &quot;emergency situation&quot;. A puppet dictator is flexing his wings- . Pakistan has nuclear weapons and we&#039;re worrying about  Iran. Once again Bush is looking under the bleachers when his eyes should be on the field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Call a spade a spade, it&#8217;s Martial Law despite the media&#8217;s softballing of an &#8220;emergency situation&#8221;. A puppet dictator is flexing his wings- . Pakistan has nuclear weapons and we&#8217;re worrying about  Iran. Once again Bush is looking under the bleachers when his eyes should be on the field.</p>
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