In a nutshell,
-a saint can only remain a saint as long as he is on the outside and not responsible for anything but a limited agenda
-once in power, it’s the system that will keep the players as clean as possible, so reforming the system is where the solution lies.

I’m thinking of things like taking the money out of campaigns, for example, so that politicians don’t owe anyone anything.

If you vote for someone like Nader, who has no chance of winning, you are, in effect, leaving the choice up to others, who might well make the absolutely worst choice among the two others.
If you vote for a major contender, you at least have some chance of influencing the resutls to the extent of avoididng the worst of the worst.

I mentioned DOD contracts only as an example of the choices any government has to make.
The mix of power, responsibility and the drive to get things done complicates principles in a way that outsider politicians don’t need to face,
They have the luxury of speaking about single issues, uncomplicated by other issues.

But that’s not the way things are whrn you are in charge of the whole show and have to deal with principles that compete with and oftern contradict other princeiples. Tthings get a lot messier then.
That’s what I meant by getting one’s hands dirty.

In a way, power corrupts because there is no way to completely stay above the fray and disassociate yourself from the messy world we live in.

We agree on the need to reform the system, but disagree on how. I think transparency is irrelevant: the system’s corruption is blatant and obvious. The task is trying to wake people up to the fact that they don’t have to vote for a major party candidate, and that just because people may become corrupt in a decade or two, for now, we need someone who isn’t a total scumbag shill. We need to vote for them. We need to run. We need to work for it. Buying in to all your justifications and yeah-buts just perpetuates the problem. We’re all hypnotized, we need to wake up and realize it’s as simple as voting for people who aren’t invested in perpetuating the corruption of the system. Once enough people do that, we have a shot at cleaning things up. This and mass-protest are the main tools we have, as litigation hasn’t been panning out recently. I can tell from your tone that you’re more about finding reasons to not do things, though. Heck, I don’t do much either, though I am finishing up my MS… meh, excuses.

BTW, the fact that people think that awarding defense contracts is inherently “dirty” helps the process stays dirty.

Power and money corrupt- anybod., Even today’s purists can get sucked in once they’ve achieved enough power.
The enemy is in the processes that encourage corruption, not in party platforms at their abstract and idealistic.stage.

Reform the porcesses, expose corruption no matter where it’s hiding. Work on projects that encourage transparency.

BTW, Nader’s government would still need to award DoD contracts and such. He’d need to get his hands dirty like everyone else.

Choosing the least of all evils is called living.

No, it’s called surviving. I don’t know what to say to a comment like that, that’s not incredibly offensive. Basically, go to church, lol.

As for the OP, WTF? Go back to slashdot. Vote for a third party, volunteer, and protest. Nonvoting just increases the power of “party faithful” and sends the message, “We don’t really want our democracy.”

I like Nader, persoanally. He lives by the best parts of American tradition, and he’s focused on the core of corporatist corruption destroying our country. But whatever, vote for people who aren’t corrupt, it’s simple.

What is happening, I think, is that everyone is insisting in having their political views prevail without compromise, and people are splintering into small factions, none of which can rule by themselves. It’s a recipe for disaster, as such splintering can only mean than no progress in any direction can be achieved.

Not voting is just sulking. If people really care about the state of politics, they would work on projects to reform the system and to find and back reform minded politians.
Sitting on the sidelines and complaining is churlish and self-defeating.

I would also add that looking for a ‘pure’ system that never caves to baser instincts is equivalent to looking for answers in fairy tlales. Every systiem of government on earth is comprised of people subject to the same old human foibles, of lusting for powerr and money.
Choosing the least of all evils is called living.

You are right about one thing – it is our fault that the government is corrupt and we are rewarding the schmucks in DC by voting for them. So maybe it’s time to speak with your votes and put some new people in office. Not voting only makes it more likely that the same old ineffective, greedy politicians will sit there for another 2 or 4 or 6 years.