Comments on: Spanish Newspaper: Bush Planned To Invade Iraq Whether Saddam Complied With UN Or Not http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:58:44 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: All In The Translation: Leaked Spanish Memo Does Not Show Bush Planned To Invade Iraq No Matter What » The Moderate Voice http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99688 All In The Translation: Leaked Spanish Memo Does Not Show Bush Planned To Invade Iraq No Matter What » The Moderate Voice Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:47:51 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99688 [...] we carried a post on reports about leaked Spanish memo that reportedly showed that in a private conversation President George [...] [...] we carried a post on reports about leaked Spanish memo that reportedly showed that in a private conversation President George [...]

]]> By: Lynx http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99673 Lynx Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:37:29 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99673 Entropy, you're right about the horrific nature of the English in that transcript, but I'm willing to bet that has a lot less to do with Bush than with the people who did the transcript. I live in Spain and I can tell you that really good English skills here are rare, for a European country. As shameful as it is, I could imagine perfectly well a situation where proper grammer was not a particular priority, even in a top level transcript. Now, I'm willing to believe this conversation took place, especially because making something like this up could get you into very serious trouble...<em>however</em> I think a warning is in order. El Pais is a top newspaper no doubt, but they aren't even-handed. Staunch supporters of the PSOE party (the one currently in power) and therefore enemies of the PP party (the one Aznar belongs to, the one that joined the "coalition of the willing"). They have an agenda, and that is to weaken the PP party as much as posible, especially through it's biggest lightning rod, Aznar. That doesn't mean the piece is false, in the least, but it does mean that at least one grain of salt is in order. Entropy, you’re right about the horrific nature of the English in that transcript, but I’m willing to bet that has a lot less to do with Bush than with the people who did the transcript. I live in Spain and I can tell you that really good English skills here are rare, for a European country. As shameful as it is, I could imagine perfectly well a situation where proper grammer was not a particular priority, even in a top level transcript.

Now, I’m willing to believe this conversation took place, especially because making something like this up could get you into very serious trouble…however I think a warning is in order. El Pais is a top newspaper no doubt, but they aren’t even-handed. Staunch supporters of the PSOE party (the one currently in power) and therefore enemies of the PP party (the one Aznar belongs to, the one that joined the “coalition of the willing”). They have an agenda, and that is to weaken the PP party as much as posible, especially through it’s biggest lightning rod, Aznar.

That doesn’t mean the piece is false, in the least, but it does mean that at least one grain of salt is in order.

]]> By: Entropy http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99668 Entropy Thu, 27 Sep 2007 05:49:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99668 Uh, the title of this post is completely misleading: <blockquote>Bush purportedly said he planned to invade Iraq inf March “if there was a United Nations Security Council resolution or not</blockquote> Bush was going to invade regardless of a UNSC resolution, not, as the title suggests, if Saddam "complied" or not. In any event, WTF is up with that transcript? Even Bush could not butcher the English language so bad. I'm afraid I have to view this article with a very high degree of skepticism. Uh, the title of this post is completely misleading:

Bush purportedly said he planned to invade Iraq inf March “if there was a United Nations Security Council resolution or not

Bush was going to invade regardless of a UNSC resolution, not, as the title suggests, if Saddam “complied” or not.

In any event, WTF is up with that transcript? Even Bush could not butcher the English language so bad. I’m afraid I have to view this article with a very high degree of skepticism.

]]> By: krit http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99660 krit Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:30:12 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99660 Yes, but does that give us the right to invade any country we want to to plunder their oil supply? Are you not even a little shocked that Bush was ready to just roll through the entire ME and remake it in our image? Yes, but does that give us the right to invade any country we want to to plunder their oil supply? Are you not even a little shocked that Bush was ready to just roll through the entire ME and remake it in our image?

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99652 DLS Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:22:35 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99652 <blockquote>the war was basically about oil</blockquote> Of course it was. It is a vital US and Western interest.

the war was basically about oil

Of course it was. It is a vital US and Western interest.

]]> By: krit http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99650 krit Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:49:16 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99650 If you connect all the dots including Chuck Hagel's admission that the initial plan that was presented to Congress in 2002 would have allowed US forces to invade any country in the ME that they chose to-- it reveals that the real goal was US domination of the region. Add to that Greenspan's revelation that the war was basically about oil---- and it doesn't paint a pretty picture of our intentions. Looks like the left had it right all along. If you connect all the dots including Chuck Hagel’s admission that the initial plan that was presented to Congress in 2002 would have allowed US forces to invade any country in the ME that they chose to– it reveals that the real goal was US domination of the region.
Add to that Greenspan’s revelation that the war was basically about oil—- and it doesn’t paint a pretty picture of our intentions.

Looks like the left had it right all along.

]]> By: krit http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99644 krit Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:16:12 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99644 What's sickening is how post 9/11 uber-patriotic fervor quickly translated into justification for just about any type of reaction that Bush could dream up. To object in Congress was to jeopardize your career and reputation, as caution and reason were perverted into inviting more attacks on US soil. We saw a miniature version of this recently when Congress allowed the administration to pressure it into approving the revamped FISA law by manufacturing a threat that was later found to have been known by them to be fraudulent. Why? Because no one wanted to be later held accountable for allowing another attack by handcuffing our intelligence agencies. What’s sickening is how post 9/11 uber-patriotic fervor quickly translated into justification for just about any type of reaction that Bush could dream up. To object in Congress was to jeopardize your career and reputation, as caution and reason were perverted into inviting more attacks on US soil.

We saw a miniature version of this recently when Congress allowed the administration to pressure it into approving the revamped FISA law by manufacturing a threat that was later found to have been known by them to be fraudulent. Why? Because no one wanted to be later held accountable for allowing another attack by handcuffing our intelligence agencies.

]]> By: jdledell http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99642 jdledell Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:08:01 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99642 Bush read Congress and the American public well on Iraq - we wanted and NEEDED more bloody revenge. Afganistan was never going to be enough. We are a very violent country and if you look at our books, video games and movies we seem to need to satiate our hunger for violence. Not only do we seem to love wars but if you look at our murder and violent crime rates vs any other developed nation you will see that we have developed into a country that takes what it wants when it wants it. Bush read Congress and the American public well on Iraq – we wanted and NEEDED more bloody revenge. Afganistan was never going to be enough. We are a very violent country and if you look at our books, video games and movies we seem to need to satiate our hunger for violence.

Not only do we seem to love wars but if you look at our murder and violent crime rates vs any other developed nation you will see that we have developed into a country that takes what it wants when it wants it.

]]> By: Sam http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99630 Sam Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:44:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99630 Wow, so its not just lefty conspiracty theory? Bush really was going to start this war because he wanted to and thats that? Jesus. Wow, so its not just lefty conspiracty theory? Bush really was going to start this war because he wanted to and thats that? Jesus.

]]> By: krit http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99617 krit Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:23:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99617 It all goes back to the Project for the New American Century, and the pressure they put on Clinton to invade Iraq. Many of the signatories ended up as high-level Bush administration employees- so their intent was clear as far back as 1998. The only remaining question, is what excuse would have been drummed up to sell the public on a preemptive strike if we hadn't been attacked on 9/11. It all goes back to the Project for the New American Century, and the pressure they put on Clinton to invade Iraq. Many of the signatories ended up as high-level Bush administration employees- so their intent was clear as far back as 1998. The only remaining question, is what excuse would have been drummed up to sell the public on a preemptive strike if we hadn’t been attacked on 9/11.

]]> By: Capt Fogg http://themoderatevoice.com/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-99615 Capt Fogg Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:07:01 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/15318/spanish-newspaper-bush-planned-to-invade-iraq-whether-saddam-complied-with-un-or-not/#comment-99615 Bush's mad lust to invade is already so obvious that we hardly need this extra bit of evidence, but of course no amount of evidence will change the minds of his supporters and if he had attacked Andorra, he'd still have a hundred reasons why we needed to and why we need to stay the course. Bush’s mad lust to invade is already so obvious that we hardly need this extra bit of evidence, but of course no amount of evidence will change the minds of his supporters and if he had attacked Andorra, he’d still have a hundred reasons why we needed to and why we need to stay the course.

]]>