Comments on: This Is What Global Warming Looks Like http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Fri, 19 Apr 2013 10:53:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: davidpsummers http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312543 davidpsummers Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:39:10 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312543 Good summary by DaGoat.

Yes, if you _systematically_ string anecdotes together in a way that accounts for sampling, etc. it means something. That process is, in fact, statistics. That is also very different than people jumping on this anecdote or that to try and prove global warming does, or does not, exist.

As to why people are believing that global warming is an out-and-out hoax. I think this is because the issue has been caught up on partisanship. Remember, it is standard procedure to consider everything a partisan opponent says to be “lies”.

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By: The_Ohioan http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312538 The_Ohioan Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:24:56 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312538 I was listening to Laura Ingram’s program on FOX radio today and she asked her guest (I didn’t catch the guests name or background) if the fact that there have been 40,000 heat related records broken this year if that meant something. His answer was “Of course not. There were also cold records broken”. Nothing here. Move along.

And we wonder why people think global warming is a hoax? Not possible, not probable, but a hoax perpetrated by ??? with an interest of regulating extraction/manufacturing corporations out of business. It’s all a huge conspiracy, and by gum we’re wise to all those conspiracies.

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By: TLoman http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312532 TLoman Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:28:25 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312532 I think that individual events must be understood in the context of larger collections of events. When my uncle, who was a pack a day smoker for 30 years, was dying of lung cancer, everyone in the family assumed that his cancer resulted from his smoking. Why? Because we knew that heavy smoking is correlated in studies of large groups with lung cancer and other diseases. We were not certain that this was the cause (there are other causes of lung cancer) but the evidence based on large population studies made it highly likely. The same reasoning can be applied to extreme weather events and global warming. There are now multiple studies showing that the ratio of high temp records to low temp records at weather stations across North America (in two studies I know of) and throughout the world (in some other work) has risen in the past 30 years. Droughts are on the increase world-wide. The rate of a variety of weather related catastrophes (floods, droughts, damaging storms, etc.) has increased. In this context it is not unreasonable to attribute wildfires and extreme storms to global warming. Are we certain? No, but what we might call the event-context provides understanding of single events and makes this conclusion more probable.

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By: JOE WINDISH, Technology Editor http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312480 JOE WINDISH, Technology Editor Wed, 04 Jul 2012 13:37:55 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312480 Thanks for the clarification David. I do see your point!

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By: zephyr http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312476 zephyr Wed, 04 Jul 2012 12:09:48 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312476 String enough anecdotes (in this case weather events) together and pretty soon you have a trend. ;-)

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By: DaGoat http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312475 DaGoat Wed, 04 Jul 2012 12:07:16 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312475 There are two topics being intertwined here, one being partisan influences in discussion of global warming and the other is the use of anecdotes in the support or denial of global warming.

The weather at any given point in time is not evidence for or against global warming. I agree with David’s point that if the weather on a given day is consistent with global warming and is used as evidence for global warming, the opposite must also be true, namely that when the weather is not consistent with global warming it can be used as evidence against global warming. The solution is to not use isolated weather events as evidence.

Abetter example than the cold winters mentioned above might be hurricanes. there were many that tied Hurricane Katrina to global warming and predicted very severe hurricane seasons to come. The year following Katrina actually had a mild hurricane season. The single mild hurricane season was not evidence against global warming, however previous attempts to use Katrina as evidence encouraged people to also use the mild hurricane season as evidence. The solution is to resist using isolated weather events as evidence and insist on long term data.

The second topic – partisanship – is an impediment to the discussion and understanding of global warming whether one is liberal or conservative. The issue is heavily partisan, and the most important factor in how someone feels about it is not generally based on scientific background or understanding, it’s based on political party. I don’t want to speak for David here, but it seems like he was saying in the usual partisan zeal to make an argument, people are tempted to disregard science and use anecdotes to make their position. This approach serves no one, since when the weather changes the opposing party will use that as anecdotal evidence as well, and it will have been legitimatized (wrongly) by the first use of anecdotal evidence. The solution is to decry use of anecdotal evidence no matter which side is using it.

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By: davidpsummers http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312463 davidpsummers Wed, 04 Jul 2012 06:03:41 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312463 It is, in fact, unwarranted to consider the post being referenced particularly partisan.

I’m not sure I meant to call the post partisan. I think (and to be honest I don’t remember my thoughts at the time) I may have been thinking about how the use of anecdotal evidence (which partisan debates are full of) and the “capture” of the issue as a partisan one are linked (and simply did a very poor job of linking to the use of anecdotal evidence to partisanship rather than linking the article to partisanship).

I have recently been thinking about the reasons for the failure to get the public to understand that the fact the world is getting warmer is one of the least controversial and have been convinced for some time that the use of the issue in partisan warfare is part of the reason.

I will comment that in some places colder winters can, in fact, be a consequence of global warming. But it is true for the same reason that global warming can in produce cooler summers in some places. In the end anecdotes about hot summers leave you open to anecdotes about cold winters.

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By: zephyr http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312459 zephyr Wed, 04 Jul 2012 04:42:20 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312459 A minority of people will be forever in denial. Smarter people will move on without them. The reality we are contending with necessarily transcends mere political nonsense, but when nonsense rears it’s head it needs to be seen for what it is. Sorry to say, I agree with Ron, we are messing up the planet. Looking the other way doesn’t mean it isn’t still happening.

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By: RON BEASLEY http://themoderatevoice.com/151963/this-is-what-global-warming-looks-like/comment-page-1/#comment-312456 RON BEASLEY Wed, 04 Jul 2012 03:50:49 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=151963#comment-312456 I think the problem is that you talk about global warming and people think the entire planet is going to turn into Hawaii. In reality it means that extremes are going to get more extreme. Colder winters in some places, drier in others and wetter in some. Both hotter and colder with more and more powerful tornadoes. The carbon industry has the PR people and the money to control the conversation and they are telling people what they want to hear – nothing is going to change. Nothing new here – there is a long history of civilizations rising and falling. Of course in the past you may have messed up a region. Now we are messing up the entire planet.

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