That’s what I was trying to say, although I did it awkwardly. Even many of those in the larger culture are in a minority of some sort (the too tall, too fat, etc.).
To get that minority feeling, one doesn’t have to be in a religious or ethnic minority.Empathy for the feelings described in the post would be easy, if seen in a nonconfrontational way.

Seen in one way (and it’s far from the only way), there is a competition among minorities for recognition and accomodation.
In my view, It would be fruitful to build on the commonality in the minority experences and try to reach consensus on what is reasonable when it comes to accomodation.

When I arrange an event that involves a meal, I ensure that a few vegetarian or tuna meals are provided for those who are vegetarian or keep kosher or halal (Islamic version of Kashrut). This is common courtesy.

When my synagogue has an event that involves a meal, it ensures that vegetarian meals are provided for those who are vegetarian. We have even partially accommodated a member with a gluten-free diet.

Whenever there is a Kiddush (involves wine), grape juice is also present for non-drinkers like me.

As members of a minority, we Jews generally go out of our way to accommodate the needs of others.

You’re not in Israel, you’re in the US, so you get US culture, and food, not the food of a tribe that makes up less than 1% of it’s population when you are on a flight….oh the humanity.

Get over it, or bring your own grub.

My two cents worth is that living as a part of a so-called sub-group in a larger culture, is a challenge for most everyone, for most of us do not belong to the core of the larger culture.

dr.e.

But it was never my intent to out spit you.

Anything further I say will only result in the continuation of David Schraubs personal melt down.

Suffice it to say I will bow before your superior intellect and move along.

The post was interesting.
The way you and Holly present your case in the comment section is very off-putting and exactly the kind of rhetoric that induces backlash against the ideas you are promoting.

An explanation works. Condemnation doesn’t.

No, I’m more annoyed that you’re styling yourself this brave warrior, flouting taboos to put down the uppity-Jews who are so scary that none save you “dare” criticize them. That’s just unbelievably self-aggrandizing. I hate to break it to you, but you are not the only person who publicly advocates policies that Jews dislike, many of which are enacted into law. As you say, we’re 2% of the population — we’re just not that powerful ’round these parts. Get over yourself.

What you seem to want is to have free reign to critique Jews, but immunity from us playing defense. This a classic case of the “anti-semitism card” (insofar as I played it, and if you search the post you’ll note I never used the term) being trumped by the “anti-semitism card card”, the latter deployed to simultaneously ridicule the idea that any sort of structural or individual anti-Semitism could possibly enter the equation while silencing the minority group member as engaging in whiny special pleading. A classic move, but not a particularly “brave” one, and certainly not one conducive to open discussion. Like I’ve argued on race — if you’re going to engage in a broad-scale discussion of a marginalized group (fwiw, Lynx, there is no conceivable way to argue that Jews aren’t a marginalized group. That’s just a baffling statement), you have to be prepared to engage in hard questions about privilege, anti-semitism, racism, etc.. I think I’ve shown a lot of restraint in not invoking them, but I see that it’s done me very little good since you see the scary Jew-critics behind every rock anyway.

Now were getting somewhere if you just get beyond the rage you feel for having your faith questioned.

I understand that there are many different versions of Judiasm within the Jewish religion. I was hoping to spur some discussion by you and hopefully Holly into helping the general populace see that not all Jews are of the Orthodox movement which holds to the rigourous standards put on them by the scholars of old.

As I suspected you and Holly are of the more reform oriented movement. I never intended to attack you or your faith but David and Holly you have to understand that most people are clueless about Judaism. That is because a very small percentage of the worlds population practice it.

If you rewrote your post with that in mind I would have been your staunchest defender on this topic. But you did not. Just as their are huge difference between Mormons, Baptists, 7th Day Adventist and Lutherans so are there differences in the Jewish faith.

The problem is that MOST people dont know that or if they do are only vaguely aware of what those difference are.

You and Holly have the perfect opportunity to help us all understand those difference instead of reinforcing stereotypes.

In a sense this is normal, since Holly and David are Jewish and it’s to be expected that they find more offense at criticism of their own faith than in that of another, but understand that from the outside there is no difference at all between criticism of one faith or another.

Somebody no more is implying that the Zionists are after him as David is implying that everyone should be forced to keep shabbat, things have sort of gotten blown out of proportion. I don’t think Jews are “marginalized” in the least. That said I DO understand the attraction of something like a Jewish center. It is true that no matter how nice and accommodating, being in a situation where no one is accommodating because you are the NORM, you need feel no gratefulness you simply go about your life without having to THINK about those little details. I fully agree with that sentiment, even if I think that it’s no biggie that there weren’t cheeseburgers on the plane

This is an interesting topic, and it’s unfortunate that
it devolved into a cat fight.

At the risk of evoking more outrage, I have to say that the question of accomodation for a minority (like Jews) looks like a matter of a glass half emply or half full.

Minority groups start with the individual, a minority consisting of one person. When one individual has requirements special only to him, accomodating them in all public places would not be seen as reasonable.

A minority that achieves recognition of the group is already one step ahead, because chances are that when requesting something special, the reasons for the request will be recognized, even if not fulfilled. A one person minority is much more likely to be seen as a kook or a pest when requesting accomodation. .

A minority that achieves accomodation some of the time is two steps ahead, as inconvenience will not crop up every time.

The feelings of alienation, sadness and frustration are common to all, though. At one time or another, we are all also a one-person minotiy who is not accomodated, It would be good to remember that, in order to avoid both callousness and undue self-pity,

I believe that reasonble accomodation is benefial to both minorities and to the majorities who acquiesce
We only need to decide what accomodations are reasonable in what circumstances and how to deal with it when accomodation is not forthcoming.

This, of course, makes the bold strokes of those who “dare” to say an ill word about Jews true heroes indeed. It is undoubtedly the massive risk they face that causes them to post behind anonymous handles like “somebody” — the only way they can speak their message of truth and hope to live to tell the tale. But their gospel must be heard, for otherwise who will insure that it remains “difficult to be a Jew in a non Jewish setting….[as] the founders and perpetuators of your faith desired” against those blasphemers within the tradition who seek new ways of conceptualizing and living our Judaism? Truly, you are a holy warrior — insuring that all Jews remain true to their roots as a religion of suffering, quashing alternative visions of Judaism that might breathe life into the “these and these principles”, and fundamentally guaranteeing that the boundaries of Judaism are forever defined by those outside the faith.

Once again, my salutations.

The short answer to why Jews observe these laws is: because the Torah says so.

The Torah consists of five books. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. coincidently the first five books in the Christian bible as well.

Many, Many Rabbi’s have suggested that the dietary laws are designed as a call to holiness. The ability to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil, pure and defiled, the sacred and the profane, is very important in Judaism. Imposing rules on what you can and cannot eat ingrains that kind of self control, requiring one to learn to control even the most basic, primal instincts.(This is my premise for the concept that Kosher laws are meant to be hard and non accomodating).

For those of you who are confused about the Jewish religion let me give a real basic analysis of their religion. They are much like Chrisitians in that there are actually different groups who believe different things. Orthodox, Conservative and Reformers are the main three groups which diverge in what they believe.

The jewish faith has never really established a Creed or written down a tenet of believes because their has really never been anyone in charge of their religion. They do not have a Pope or a council which keeps the Jewish faith in a general movement forward.

The closest thing to Articles of faith was penned by Maimonides’ 13 principles of faith which later was reduced to 3 articles of faith. Never the less with the enlightenment of the 18th century the Jewish faith came under severe attack by the advent of scientific theory and many new and differnt means became necessary to deal with this new Enlightenment by both Jew, as well as Christians and all religions.

The jewish faith much like Christianity and even Islam has split into many different offshoots with differing beliefs. I suspect that David and Holly belong to the more progressing reformist movement and reject the Orthodox movement of the Jewish faith.

Having taught Jewish History for 12 years I sorta have a basic understanding to some of the tenets of the faith.

The questions I always asked my students is why is it so hard to follow the kosher laws demanded and set forth by the torah?

Its hard and inconvient. Yes it is. That is precisely what God wanted of his children when he gave the laws to the one and only great profit “Moses”. Israel was NOT the chosen nation. They were Chosen for a special task.

I may be ignorant Holly but one thing Im not is anti Jewish. I find their religion truly fascinating. The big difference is that most Modern day jews of the Non Orthodox belief are confused as to just how to make all this work.

I have always suspected in talking to fellow jews that that is because of the loose and diverse understanding brought about by the various disciplines of the Jewish faith.

I reckon you can ban me any time Holly.

I would just ask why I am ignorant for questioning someones Religious practices or beliefs.

If I was a Christian posting here about how Im not allowed to pray in school or ask the airlines to stop flying on Saturday to respect my 7th day adventist rules you would be having a cow.

But because we are talking about the Jewish faith suddenly it becomes hallowed ground and that anyone who would dare question it is suddenly Ignorant.

Sad that your faith can bare so little scrutiny.

The Jews very existence is intended to be difficult. That is pretty much what God guaranteed them in the bible and has been the case thru out history.

My annoyance comes with Jews who complain about being put upon by their OWN faith and their OWN observance of the very tenets of that faith intended to make life difficult.

So yes I am the one “Dude” who said you are close minded in a round about way not because you wanted a hamburger on an airline flight but because one of your fellow JEWS (Holly)immediately jumped on me for being an ignorant savage for even daring to call you out on what you are saying

I do agree that it is harder to be a Jew in a non Jewish nation. That is not my fault, or Sun Airlines fault or the Democrats or the Republicans fault. That is the Jews fault for having a religion that places them in predicaments not easily solved by the every day norms of society.

I don’t know how many times I’ve been told by the left wingers at tmv to keep my religion at home or in church and they have no problem with it. So the minute I say that to a JEW then I become an Ignorant DUDE>

What about the lactose intolerant vegan on that plane? Imagine their dismay. Its not that society doesn’t value you or is trying on purpose to make you miss a meal. I’m frankly surprised anyone would expect such automatic treatment in the first place. You live amongst a vastly non-jewish population, why would kosher meals be assumed on the menu?