Comments on: Enabling Iraqi Dysfunction http://themoderatevoice.com/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:05:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Sam http://themoderatevoice.com/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/comment-page-1/#comment-98306 Sam Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:59:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/#comment-98306 "More likely, Sunni-US peace in Anbar is driven more by local warlords seeking money and weaponry for the inevitable fight against the Shi’ite government than any desire to make peace with Shi’ite hegemony." How much of that money and weaponry you think made its way into hands of Sunni's on friendly terms with AQI? What would Bush say if he found out that we are actually in such a confused state over in Iraq that we are supplying terrorists accidentally? Aiding and comforting the enemy indeed. “More likely, Sunni-US peace in Anbar is driven more by local warlords seeking money and weaponry for the inevitable fight against the Shi’ite government than any desire to make peace with Shi’ite hegemony.”

How much of that money and weaponry you think made its way into hands of Sunni’s on friendly terms with AQI? What would Bush say if he found out that we are actually in such a confused state over in Iraq that we are supplying terrorists accidentally? Aiding and comforting the enemy indeed.

]]> By: domajot http://themoderatevoice.com/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/comment-page-1/#comment-98297 domajot Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:31:43 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/#comment-98297 Entropy - You are right about the ME, where bribes are just part of doing budiness and negotiating political alliances. Does that make it okay for the US to resort to 'when in Rome' tactics? That's a serious question for us to consider as a mtter of princeiple. Behond that, we're not good at playing ME games and are likely to be outwitted at every turn. That's why the Anbar success makes me so nervous. Our new found friends, the Sunnis, have their own agenda, and what is good for us one day can turn against us in the twinkling of an eye. You say troop levels won't influence political progress, but at the same time say that threatening to withdraw troops is counterproductive. That sounds self-contradictory. If troop levels can't make a difference, why would changing troop levels make a difference? Are you saying that even though nothing we do helps, we should keep doing it (what?) anyway? Entropy -
You are right about the ME, where bribes are just part of doing budiness and negotiating political alliances.
Does that make it okay for the US to resort to ‘when in Rome’ tactics? That’s a serious question for us to consider as a mtter of princeiple. Behond that, we’re not good at playing ME games and are likely to be outwitted at every turn.
That’s why the Anbar success makes me so nervous.
Our new found friends, the Sunnis, have their own agenda, and what is good for us one day can turn against us in the twinkling of an eye.

You say troop levels won’t influence political progress, but at the same time say that threatening to withdraw troops is counterproductive. That sounds self-contradictory. If troop levels can’t make a difference, why would changing troop levels make a difference?

Are you saying that even though nothing we do helps, we should keep doing it (what?) anyway?

]]> By: Entropy http://themoderatevoice.com/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/comment-page-1/#comment-98276 Entropy Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:33:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/#comment-98276 <blockquote>And without that there is rampant corruption, cronyism and warlordism. It seems all we want to do is enrich our local warlord, Sheikh Sittar. That’s not a prescription for stability.</blockquote> Welcome to the Middle-East. I suggest that the concepts you deride here are perceived much differently in the region.

And without that there is rampant corruption, cronyism and warlordism. It seems all we want to do is enrich our local warlord, Sheikh Sittar. That’s not a prescription for stability.

Welcome to the Middle-East. I suggest that the concepts you deride here are perceived much differently in the region.

]]> By: Entropy http://themoderatevoice.com/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/comment-page-1/#comment-98274 Entropy Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:31:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/#comment-98274 Sorry, but the idea that Iraqi political progress is tied to US troop levels is dubious at best. No amount of US pressure can force the Iraqi factions to agree, and that includes using troops levels at leverage. Threats to reduce troop levels or pull-out entirely will not provide much incentive for cooperation - quite the opposite. Sorry, but the idea that Iraqi political progress is tied to US troop levels is dubious at best. No amount of US pressure can force the Iraqi factions to agree, and that includes using troops levels at leverage. Threats to reduce troop levels or pull-out entirely will not provide much incentive for cooperation – quite the opposite.

]]> By: domajot http://themoderatevoice.com/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/comment-page-1/#comment-98234 domajot Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:42:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/#comment-98234 Corruption in Iraq is a given, laws or no laws.Their anti-corruption official (I forget his title) has fled the country, reportedly due to death threats Corruption and nepotism have been the lingua franca in these tribal societies forever. We should not be surprised that much of our billieons gets lost through that route. When Croker was talking about how complicated Iraq was, I wondered if that was one of the things he had in mind.. It's also a major reason why the Afghan government is unpopular. Too much government money evaporates, and the police are paid so little they extort protection money from the people to make ends meet. Operating in the ME is not like rebuilding Europe! That's one of the many things we should have known before invading.Iraq. Corruption in Iraq is a given, laws or no laws.Their anti-corruption official (I forget his title) has fled the country, reportedly due to death threats
Corruption and nepotism have been the lingua franca in these tribal societies forever. We should not be surprised that much of our billieons gets lost through that route.
When Croker was talking about how complicated Iraq was, I wondered if that was one of the things he had in mind..

It’s also a major reason why the Afghan government is unpopular. Too much government money evaporates, and the police are paid so little they extort protection money from the people to make ends meet.

Operating in the ME is not like rebuilding Europe!
That’s one of the many things we should have known before invading.Iraq.

]]> By: Elrod http://themoderatevoice.com/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/comment-page-1/#comment-98232 Elrod Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:20:28 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/#comment-98232 doma, That's called extortion, right? The US has to force Maliki to share money even though his government hasn't passed a law to do so. How long can that continue? Without a law there is no transparency or consistency. And without that there is rampant corruption, cronyism and warlordism. It seems all we want to do is enrich our local warlord, Sheikh Sittar. That's not a prescription for stability. doma,
That’s called extortion, right? The US has to force Maliki to share money even though his government hasn’t passed a law to do so. How long can that continue? Without a law there is no transparency or consistency. And without that there is rampant corruption, cronyism and warlordism. It seems all we want to do is enrich our local warlord, Sheikh Sittar. That’s not a prescription for stability.

]]> By: domajot http://themoderatevoice.com/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/comment-page-1/#comment-98231 domajot Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:12:41 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/15099/enabling-iraqi-dysfunction/#comment-98231 Crocker claimed thatr revenue sharing was taking place despite the absence of a law. Joe Biden claims a Sunni chief told him that alMaliki had been holding on to the money and only released it because of the presence of Ameticans. Who knows. With no law, anything can happen. In Iraq, anything can happen even with a law. Crocker claimed thatr revenue sharing was taking place despite the absence of a law.
Joe Biden claims a Sunni chief told him that alMaliki had been holding on to the money and only released it because of the presence of Ameticans.

Who knows.
With no law, anything can happen. In Iraq, anything can happen even with a law.

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