Comments on: Things Have to Get Worse… Before They Get Better http://themoderatevoice.com/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Mon, 28 May 2012 03:44:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: cosmoetica http://themoderatevoice.com/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/comment-page-1/#comment-97146 cosmoetica Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:24:53 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/#comment-97146 It's in regards to his book, A Country That Works. I'd recommend it as a read. His talks on dealing w Chinese unions- verboten for AFL-CIO'ers, shows why he's the future of Am. Labor. It’s in regards to his book, A Country That Works. I’d recommend it as a read. His talks on dealing w Chinese unions- verboten for AFL-CIO’ers, shows why he’s the future of Am. Labor.

]]> By: Michael van der Galien http://themoderatevoice.com/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/comment-page-1/#comment-97142 Michael van der Galien Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:04:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/#comment-97142 Really? Send the link of course once it's up. Really? Send the link of course once it’s up.

]]> By: cosmoetica http://themoderatevoice.com/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/comment-page-1/#comment-97141 cosmoetica Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:03:27 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/#comment-97141 I'll be interviewing Andy Stern at Cosmoetica in early '08. I’ll be interviewing Andy Stern at Cosmoetica in early ’08.

]]> By: Jim Satterfield http://themoderatevoice.com/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/comment-page-1/#comment-97116 Jim Satterfield Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:51:27 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/general/14876/things-have-to-get-worse-before-they-get-better/#comment-97116 Actually, Michael, you sound like more of the problem than someone who might be able to contribute to a solution. You have already decided that the reason for the problem is the expense of the welfare state. But Herbert is writing of the views of a union leader who functions in a society that doesn't have anything approaching the level of social services that the Netherlands has. Yet you seem to be drawing parallels that just won't work given the chasm between how things operate where you live and how they work in the U.S. Frankly, this sentence sounds like nothing but blind conservative faith <blockquote>Many people will first be worse off than they are now, before they will be better off. </blockquote> Exactly how do you know that they would be better off? How many social services should be eliminated? All of them? Most of them? What is going to make anyone other than the already wealthy better off in such a system? Based on what I've seen of how things go in the U.S. the only thing that would happen with any monies freed up by eliminating the "welfare state" is that they would flow up to the already well off. The brutal truth is that there is absolutely nothing in a capitalist system that automatically works out best for everyone or even a majority. Actually, Michael, you sound like more of the problem than someone who might be able to contribute to a solution. You have already decided that the reason for the problem is the expense of the welfare state. But Herbert is writing of the views of a union leader who functions in a society that doesn’t have anything approaching the level of social services that the Netherlands has. Yet you seem to be drawing parallels that just won’t work given the chasm between how things operate where you live and how they work in the U.S.

Frankly, this sentence sounds like nothing but blind conservative faith

Many people will first be worse off than they are now, before they will be better off.

Exactly how do you know that they would be better off? How many social services should be eliminated? All of them? Most of them? What is going to make anyone other than the already wealthy better off in such a system? Based on what I’ve seen of how things go in the U.S. the only thing that would happen with any monies freed up by eliminating the “welfare state” is that they would flow up to the already well off. The brutal truth is that there is absolutely nothing in a capitalist system that automatically works out best for everyone or even a majority.

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