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	<title>Comments on: Guest Voice: Oil Shale to the Rescue?</title>
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		<title>By: Chemistry Hub</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-185393</link>
		<dc:creator>Chemistry Hub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 14:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-185393</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Chemistry Hub...&lt;/strong&gt;

[...] According to the U.S. Department of Labor, $320 billion dollars is more money than the annual salaries of every elementary &amp; secondary school teacher, physicist, chemist, economist, internist, pediatrician, registered nurse, ... [...]...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Chemistry Hub&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...] According to the U.S. Department of Labor, $320 billion dollars is more money than the annual salaries of every elementary &amp; secondary school teacher, physicist, chemist, economist, internist, pediatrician, registered nurse, &#8230; [...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96927</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96927</guid>
		<description>As far as reducing auto usage of oil we have a few options.  I&#039;d like to address two pieces of information presented by the poster and what I think of them, the amount of land needed for biofuel and the use of hybrids.

First, ethanol is not terribly efficient.  There are many other types of crops that can be used that produce better quality biofuels, notably biodiesel, which many more gallons/acre and smaller energy for production requirements.   From everything I&#039;ve read ethanol and its huge PR presence are a direct result of corn farmers and their lobbies.    

Also stated was that hybrids are not going to have signifigant market penetration, which is true.   However just about any vehicle running diesel is able to switch to biodiesel with minor modifications.    Should biodiesel fuels be produced in quantity there is a ready market in almost all commercial, construction, mass transit and transport vehicles which are all diesel.    This would require signifigant amounts of land as well, but using other crops such as palm and switchgrass could meet the needs with alot less real estate than corn.

As for the current batch of hybrids on the market they could be a lot better in terms of underlying design, at least as far as hydrocarbon fuel efficiency.   We currently use parallel hybrids that are essentially a traditional car with batteries and electic assist backup.  They net about 25% better mpg and retain all the usual maintenance issues of a car but with battery replacment/disposal as well.  

A series hybrid like the Volt being designed by GM uses only electric motors for locomotion and gets rid of the combustion engine and drivetrain altogether.   The batteries power the car, and when they run out an electric generator(which could just as easily be diesel) kicks in to keep the electic motors powered.   Basically this means greatly reduced maintenance(no drivetrain, oilchanges, belt replacements etc..) and if the driver keeps trips under 80 or so miles doesn&#039;t have to refuel at all.    This of course greatly increases our demand for electricity if we switch all vehicles over to that style.

Any way you slice it we need to find ways to up electricity production.    We have plenty of coal, but now is a good time to look into wind and solar as well.   Home and commecial photovoltaics are expensive but if we want to really create a lot of energy, especially during peak usage hours its the way to go.   Basically I think the gov&#039;t needs to offer signifigant tax breaks and subsidies to homeowners and real estate companies that are willing to put of the money to install these systems.   The technology is there but its not quite within the reach dollar wise for many people even though over the long run is saves money.   The only organization with the resources to get the job done is the gov&#039;t. 

Already wind farms have been taking advantage of similar tax breaks there is a rapidly growing business for them.   Considering the oil companies have been getting somewhere in the neighborhood of $8billion in breaks I think maybe somewhere we can come up with a similar program for those wishing to take themselves off the grid and/or feed back into it with solar. 

Like Entropy said, one shot solutions are not viable.  Its going to take a concerted effort from multiple solutions all going up at once to really get us off the dependence on foreign energy.   But this is America, we have the know how and the money to do it if we really really want to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as reducing auto usage of oil we have a few options.  I&#8217;d like to address two pieces of information presented by the poster and what I think of them, the amount of land needed for biofuel and the use of hybrids.</p>
<p>First, ethanol is not terribly efficient.  There are many other types of crops that can be used that produce better quality biofuels, notably biodiesel, which many more gallons/acre and smaller energy for production requirements.   From everything I&#8217;ve read ethanol and its huge PR presence are a direct result of corn farmers and their lobbies.    </p>
<p>Also stated was that hybrids are not going to have signifigant market penetration, which is true.   However just about any vehicle running diesel is able to switch to biodiesel with minor modifications.    Should biodiesel fuels be produced in quantity there is a ready market in almost all commercial, construction, mass transit and transport vehicles which are all diesel.    This would require signifigant amounts of land as well, but using other crops such as palm and switchgrass could meet the needs with alot less real estate than corn.</p>
<p>As for the current batch of hybrids on the market they could be a lot better in terms of underlying design, at least as far as hydrocarbon fuel efficiency.   We currently use parallel hybrids that are essentially a traditional car with batteries and electic assist backup.  They net about 25% better mpg and retain all the usual maintenance issues of a car but with battery replacment/disposal as well.  </p>
<p>A series hybrid like the Volt being designed by GM uses only electric motors for locomotion and gets rid of the combustion engine and drivetrain altogether.   The batteries power the car, and when they run out an electric generator(which could just as easily be diesel) kicks in to keep the electic motors powered.   Basically this means greatly reduced maintenance(no drivetrain, oilchanges, belt replacements etc..) and if the driver keeps trips under 80 or so miles doesn&#8217;t have to refuel at all.    This of course greatly increases our demand for electricity if we switch all vehicles over to that style.</p>
<p>Any way you slice it we need to find ways to up electricity production.    We have plenty of coal, but now is a good time to look into wind and solar as well.   Home and commecial photovoltaics are expensive but if we want to really create a lot of energy, especially during peak usage hours its the way to go.   Basically I think the gov&#8217;t needs to offer signifigant tax breaks and subsidies to homeowners and real estate companies that are willing to put of the money to install these systems.   The technology is there but its not quite within the reach dollar wise for many people even though over the long run is saves money.   The only organization with the resources to get the job done is the gov&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Already wind farms have been taking advantage of similar tax breaks there is a rapidly growing business for them.   Considering the oil companies have been getting somewhere in the neighborhood of $8billion in breaks I think maybe somewhere we can come up with a similar program for those wishing to take themselves off the grid and/or feed back into it with solar. </p>
<p>Like Entropy said, one shot solutions are not viable.  Its going to take a concerted effort from multiple solutions all going up at once to really get us off the dependence on foreign energy.   But this is America, we have the know how and the money to do it if we really really want to.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96814</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96814</guid>
		<description>The Green River oil shale deposits cover some 16,000 square miles, a land also inhabitated by numerous people, towns, businesses, and North Americaâ€™s largest migratory deer herd. Oil shale development requires vast amounts of energy. Since coal is prevalent in the region, the assumption is that up to half a dozen new coal-fired plants would be required.
Then there are the water requirements, from a river system that is the major water source for 7 states, millions of people, and much of our domestic food production. That river is already over allocated. We may think we canâ€™t live without oil, but itâ€™s a certitude that we canâ€™t without water.
The actual development techniques are also problematic. In the past, mined and retorted. This causes several problemsâ€”surface mining would require open pits up to TWO THOUSAND FEET deep (see RAND report). While underground mining wouldnâ€™t require such tragic consequences to the Westâ€™s lands, in either case mining results in large amounts of tailings. Indeed, the chemical process that converts kerogen â€˜popcornsâ€™ the tailings making them several times larger in volume than the rock that is actually extracted. Former oil shale development areas are still being cleaned up at public expense.
The â€˜in-situâ€™ process pioneered by Royal Dutch Shell not only requires massive amounts of energy and water, but requires 100% surface disturbance of each area being developed. Thatâ€™s rightâ€”100% of the surface of the area is stripped of all vegetation, bladed, and punched with heaters (and refrigerating wells along the perimeter).
There are people who live here already facing unprecedented levels of drilling so our natural gas can be sold at bargain basement rates in the Midwest. Western Colorado does not want to be Americaâ€™s sacrifice zone simply because folks refuse to get out of their Explorers, Hummers, and Escalades. When the U.S. can demonstrate that it actually cares about energy conservation, efficiency, and clean energy, then maybe western communities will welcome this discussion. Otherwise itâ€™s more of the sameâ€”American consumers placing the burden of unsustainable practices on people, and ecosystems, far away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Green River oil shale deposits cover some 16,000 square miles, a land also inhabitated by numerous people, towns, businesses, and North Americaâ€™s largest migratory deer herd. Oil shale development requires vast amounts of energy. Since coal is prevalent in the region, the assumption is that up to half a dozen new coal-fired plants would be required.<br />
Then there are the water requirements, from a river system that is the major water source for 7 states, millions of people, and much of our domestic food production. That river is already over allocated. We may think we canâ€™t live without oil, but itâ€™s a certitude that we canâ€™t without water.<br />
The actual development techniques are also problematic. In the past, mined and retorted. This causes several problemsâ€”surface mining would require open pits up to TWO THOUSAND FEET deep (see RAND report). While underground mining wouldnâ€™t require such tragic consequences to the Westâ€™s lands, in either case mining results in large amounts of tailings. Indeed, the chemical process that converts kerogen â€˜popcornsâ€™ the tailings making them several times larger in volume than the rock that is actually extracted. Former oil shale development areas are still being cleaned up at public expense.<br />
The â€˜in-situâ€™ process pioneered by Royal Dutch Shell not only requires massive amounts of energy and water, but requires 100% surface disturbance of each area being developed. Thatâ€™s rightâ€”100% of the surface of the area is stripped of all vegetation, bladed, and punched with heaters (and refrigerating wells along the perimeter).<br />
There are people who live here already facing unprecedented levels of drilling so our natural gas can be sold at bargain basement rates in the Midwest. Western Colorado does not want to be Americaâ€™s sacrifice zone simply because folks refuse to get out of their Explorers, Hummers, and Escalades. When the U.S. can demonstrate that it actually cares about energy conservation, efficiency, and clean energy, then maybe western communities will welcome this discussion. Otherwise itâ€™s more of the sameâ€”American consumers placing the burden of unsustainable practices on people, and ecosystems, far away.</p>
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		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96804</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96804</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m somewhat familiar with Oil Shale as a native of Colorado who went through the oil-shale boom and bust in the 1980&#039;s.  My father had invested heavily in oil shale and when it collapsed we almost ended up on the street. 

The numbers put out in the article seem to be rather wishful thinking - I find it difficult to believe that and equivalent amount of oil could be extracted and processed for 20-30% of the current price of oil. 

Personally, I&#039;m not a one-size-fits-all kind of person when it comes to large, complex problems like oil dependency.  No one thing will solve the problem.  I think biofuels will have a role, and oil shale might as well, but I simply don&#039;t believe the costs the author has quoted are realistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m somewhat familiar with Oil Shale as a native of Colorado who went through the oil-shale boom and bust in the 1980&#8217;s.  My father had invested heavily in oil shale and when it collapsed we almost ended up on the street. </p>
<p>The numbers put out in the article seem to be rather wishful thinking &#8211; I find it difficult to believe that and equivalent amount of oil could be extracted and processed for 20-30% of the current price of oil. </p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m not a one-size-fits-all kind of person when it comes to large, complex problems like oil dependency.  No one thing will solve the problem.  I think biofuels will have a role, and oil shale might as well, but I simply don&#8217;t believe the costs the author has quoted are realistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr.Moderate</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96799</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr.Moderate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96799</guid>
		<description>Also, as &quot;somebody&quot; said above, the processes outlined in this article, as well as in the DOE websites that the author linked to, show that the premise rests on the development of new technologies which are still years away from mass production.  The argument of &quot;not ready yet&quot; was used in the original article to argue against waiting for cellulosic ethanol production as a way to offset petroleum use.  That is again secondary to ignoring the myriad options for renewable energy to generate literally all of our current energy needs with existing technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, as &#8220;somebody&#8221; said above, the processes outlined in this article, as well as in the DOE websites that the author linked to, show that the premise rests on the development of new technologies which are still years away from mass production.  The argument of &#8220;not ready yet&#8221; was used in the original article to argue against waiting for cellulosic ethanol production as a way to offset petroleum use.  That is again secondary to ignoring the myriad options for renewable energy to generate literally all of our current energy needs with existing technology.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr.Moderate</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96798</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr.Moderate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96798</guid>
		<description>The article was well written on the topics covered, but left out a whole range of topics related to this.  The first thing that was left out was the environmental impact of extraction process itself.  Unless they have substantially reduced the surface footprint and water requirements this is going to be akin to the strip mining that was banned in this country nearly a century ago (and that was before there was a legitimate environmental movement).  The cost of cleanup should be factored in to the cost of the barrel of oil.  Since these are on national lands we know that the government will pick up the tab for the cleanup, not the oil companies, so I guess they don&#039;t have to factor that into the costs.  (Makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, doesn&#039;t it?)

The second thing it fails to address is alternative energy practices.  The energy sector does not consist of two sources--ethanol and petroleum.  There are a wide range of options that can just as easily be turned on immediately.  We have multi-megawatt wind turbines, solar cells exceeding 40% efficiency in testing and over 20% efficiency in mass production as well as other technologies such as geothermal, hydro and nuclear power as well.

Rather than spending hundreds of millions of dollars now to develop these fields and then billions of dollars later to clean them up, how about we simply invest in the renewable energy infrastructure now and get off oil for mainline energy production once and for all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article was well written on the topics covered, but left out a whole range of topics related to this.  The first thing that was left out was the environmental impact of extraction process itself.  Unless they have substantially reduced the surface footprint and water requirements this is going to be akin to the strip mining that was banned in this country nearly a century ago (and that was before there was a legitimate environmental movement).  The cost of cleanup should be factored in to the cost of the barrel of oil.  Since these are on national lands we know that the government will pick up the tab for the cleanup, not the oil companies, so I guess they don&#8217;t have to factor that into the costs.  (Makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, doesn&#8217;t it?)</p>
<p>The second thing it fails to address is alternative energy practices.  The energy sector does not consist of two sources&#8211;ethanol and petroleum.  There are a wide range of options that can just as easily be turned on immediately.  We have multi-megawatt wind turbines, solar cells exceeding 40% efficiency in testing and over 20% efficiency in mass production as well as other technologies such as geothermal, hydro and nuclear power as well.</p>
<p>Rather than spending hundreds of millions of dollars now to develop these fields and then billions of dollars later to clean them up, how about we simply invest in the renewable energy infrastructure now and get off oil for mainline energy production once and for all?</p>
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		<title>By: Somebody</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96797</link>
		<dc:creator>Somebody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96797</guid>
		<description>Oil shale extraction is not an available technology that works as of yet.

Today if we were to use the existing technology to extract oil shale to give you an idea of the cost.....gasoline would be 22 dollars a gallon.

But all in all this was a good article.  He is mostly correct in his assertion that all the screams are just what politicians do.

Immigration, Ethanol etc. are all means of smoking mirrors to keep America afloat one more year or decade until the current crop of politicians retire.  

The fact is that America is fast becoming bankrupt.  That despite our &quot;Cash Flow&quot; we have NO money.  Immigration was meant to rectify that by increasing our tax base.

Ethanol and biofuels is meant to keep the price of gasoline at modest levels while attempting to keep the massive bleeding of money &quot;OUT&quot; of our country to try and stem the fall into bankruptcy that the USA is facing.

Oil shale is our salvation &quot;IF&quot; we can develop a meaningful and cost effective means to extract it.  If not......it is like the guys trapped in the submarine and running out of air.......above their heads only perhaps 300 feet away is all the air they could ever need to breath.........the problem?..........they cant reach it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oil shale extraction is not an available technology that works as of yet.</p>
<p>Today if we were to use the existing technology to extract oil shale to give you an idea of the cost&#8230;..gasoline would be 22 dollars a gallon.</p>
<p>But all in all this was a good article.  He is mostly correct in his assertion that all the screams are just what politicians do.</p>
<p>Immigration, Ethanol etc. are all means of smoking mirrors to keep America afloat one more year or decade until the current crop of politicians retire.  </p>
<p>The fact is that America is fast becoming bankrupt.  That despite our &#8220;Cash Flow&#8221; we have NO money.  Immigration was meant to rectify that by increasing our tax base.</p>
<p>Ethanol and biofuels is meant to keep the price of gasoline at modest levels while attempting to keep the massive bleeding of money &#8220;OUT&#8221; of our country to try and stem the fall into bankruptcy that the USA is facing.</p>
<p>Oil shale is our salvation &#8220;IF&#8221; we can develop a meaningful and cost effective means to extract it.  If not&#8230;&#8230;it is like the guys trapped in the submarine and running out of air&#8230;&#8230;.above their heads only perhaps 300 feet away is all the air they could ever need to breath&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;the problem?&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.they cant reach it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynx</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96793</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96793</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the post, very informative. I have no expertise on the matter of fuel production, but I do know some about the general process of science and scientific investigation, and in that light I&#039;d like to make a small addition.

You say that biofuels will not solve our energy problems. It would be much more accurate to say that biofuels won&#039;t solve our energy problems &lt;strong&gt;yet&lt;/strong&gt;. That doesn&#039;t necessarily mean they will eventually, but the nuance is important. Certainly at the point we are in biofuels now they couldn&#039;t cover our needs, but the solution is not to abandon that option, but to invest strongly in research. Projecting the needs in terms of land is dangerous because we simply don&#039;t know how much fuel could be gotten from biological sources, nor how efficient cars can be made to be, through future research. 

Certainly while one option is unviable, you need to invest in others, but without abandoning the original line of research. I say this because though I know that there are plenty of people who only care about what is best for the nation, I don&#039;t think they populate the power-circles in our energy industry. The industry is perfectly capable of repressing alternate avenues of research until they are sure that they can dominate the new market.

As for the turn-over of new cars a question for you. Most people probably will keep their car until it stops functioning or their personal needs change (like having children). However, would the appearance of a car that is far more efficient (read: cheaper) rather accelerate turnover? If you could double or triple the fuel efficiency of hybrids vs. traditional cars, wouldn&#039;t the change happen more quickly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the post, very informative. I have no expertise on the matter of fuel production, but I do know some about the general process of science and scientific investigation, and in that light I&#8217;d like to make a small addition.</p>
<p>You say that biofuels will not solve our energy problems. It would be much more accurate to say that biofuels won&#8217;t solve our energy problems <strong>yet</strong>. That doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean they will eventually, but the nuance is important. Certainly at the point we are in biofuels now they couldn&#8217;t cover our needs, but the solution is not to abandon that option, but to invest strongly in research. Projecting the needs in terms of land is dangerous because we simply don&#8217;t know how much fuel could be gotten from biological sources, nor how efficient cars can be made to be, through future research. </p>
<p>Certainly while one option is unviable, you need to invest in others, but without abandoning the original line of research. I say this because though I know that there are plenty of people who only care about what is best for the nation, I don&#8217;t think they populate the power-circles in our energy industry. The industry is perfectly capable of repressing alternate avenues of research until they are sure that they can dominate the new market.</p>
<p>As for the turn-over of new cars a question for you. Most people probably will keep their car until it stops functioning or their personal needs change (like having children). However, would the appearance of a car that is far more efficient (read: cheaper) rather accelerate turnover? If you could double or triple the fuel efficiency of hybrids vs. traditional cars, wouldn&#8217;t the change happen more quickly?</p>
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		<title>By: pacatrue</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96789</link>
		<dc:creator>pacatrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96789</guid>
		<description>So, it looks like this exact same post was also sent to the Huffington Post. There was some decent discussion on that site of benefits and drawbacks to oil shale. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/j-thomas-andrews/oil-shale-to-the-rescue_b_62057.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s the link&lt;/a&gt;. One of the main drawbacks not particularly addressed in this post is that the mining process is similar to coal production and all of its environmental damage. 

I hope I don&#039;t come off as anti-oil shale. Its extraction might be part of an energy solution. But it isn&#039;t clear that the picture presented here shows all of the costs yet.

Personally, the &quot;solution&quot; to me has always seemed to require a little bit of this and a little bit of that - decrease consumption by a few percentage points here, get a few percent from solar and wind there, get a few percent from biofuels over here, and have a few percent off geothermal, etc. Each one by itself cannot solve the problem, but add them together and you&#039;ve reduced petroleum dependence by 50%. All solutions will probably take 50 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, it looks like this exact same post was also sent to the Huffington Post. There was some decent discussion on that site of benefits and drawbacks to oil shale. <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/j-thomas-andrews/oil-shale-to-the-rescue_b_62057.html" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s the link</a>. One of the main drawbacks not particularly addressed in this post is that the mining process is similar to coal production and all of its environmental damage. </p>
<p>I hope I don&#8217;t come off as anti-oil shale. Its extraction might be part of an energy solution. But it isn&#8217;t clear that the picture presented here shows all of the costs yet.</p>
<p>Personally, the &#8220;solution&#8221; to me has always seemed to require a little bit of this and a little bit of that &#8211; decrease consumption by a few percentage points here, get a few percent from solar and wind there, get a few percent from biofuels over here, and have a few percent off geothermal, etc. Each one by itself cannot solve the problem, but add them together and you&#8217;ve reduced petroleum dependence by 50%. All solutions will probably take 50 years.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pacatrue</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-96787</link>
		<dc:creator>pacatrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/14825/guest-voice-oil-shale-to-the-rescue/#comment-96787</guid>
		<description>First up, thanks for the nice, substantive article. I am a newbie to oil shale, so it is useful to me. I do have a few questions.

Since the bio mentions you as a venture capitalist, could you disclose any financial interests you have in oil shale development? Such investments, of course, do not make anything you have stated inaccurate, but it will help readers know the background of the piece. Naturally, feel free to stay vague on names as you please.

Next up, why isn&#039;t everyone in the world already jumping on this? From your piece, it sounds like we are sitting on vast reserves and yet  few are even mentioning them. I&#039;d like to think the reason is due to climate concern, but we&#039;ve never shown any serious desire to change our energy consumption and development due to that reason to date.

The only real critique I have is to disagree with the &#039;China is an even worse polluter and so it&#039;s okay for us to pollute too&#039; argument. That&#039;s like saying I can punch Billy in the stomach because Joe already punched him in the face. Despite my disagreement there, I do thank you for sharing a negative of this resource. What do you think the prospects are for not just saying we might use tax revenues to offset carbon emissions from oil shale development but actually making that part of the business model? Does the potential technology actually work in an affordable manner? If you can create a business plan that in 10 years could both drastically decrease dependence on foreign oil and, through technological development keep carbon levels the same or less than now, you&#039;d have a winner.

By the way, since many of the reserves are on federal land, what type of land is it? (Are we about to dig up national parks?) And do you have any info on how rights to the raw materials would be divied up among interested producers? Finally, what do you see as the time scale for substantive oil shale development? Is it actually any faster than biofuel production? One doesn&#039;t mine a trillion tons of oil shale in a year or two either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First up, thanks for the nice, substantive article. I am a newbie to oil shale, so it is useful to me. I do have a few questions.</p>
<p>Since the bio mentions you as a venture capitalist, could you disclose any financial interests you have in oil shale development? Such investments, of course, do not make anything you have stated inaccurate, but it will help readers know the background of the piece. Naturally, feel free to stay vague on names as you please.</p>
<p>Next up, why isn&#8217;t everyone in the world already jumping on this? From your piece, it sounds like we are sitting on vast reserves and yet  few are even mentioning them. I&#8217;d like to think the reason is due to climate concern, but we&#8217;ve never shown any serious desire to change our energy consumption and development due to that reason to date.</p>
<p>The only real critique I have is to disagree with the &#8216;China is an even worse polluter and so it&#8217;s okay for us to pollute too&#8217; argument. That&#8217;s like saying I can punch Billy in the stomach because Joe already punched him in the face. Despite my disagreement there, I do thank you for sharing a negative of this resource. What do you think the prospects are for not just saying we might use tax revenues to offset carbon emissions from oil shale development but actually making that part of the business model? Does the potential technology actually work in an affordable manner? If you can create a business plan that in 10 years could both drastically decrease dependence on foreign oil and, through technological development keep carbon levels the same or less than now, you&#8217;d have a winner.</p>
<p>By the way, since many of the reserves are on federal land, what type of land is it? (Are we about to dig up national parks?) And do you have any info on how rights to the raw materials would be divied up among interested producers? Finally, what do you see as the time scale for substantive oil shale development? Is it actually any faster than biofuel production? One doesn&#8217;t mine a trillion tons of oil shale in a year or two either.</p>
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