Comments on: The Nike Theory of Genocide Response http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:11:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Entropy http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96095 Entropy Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:57:03 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96095 After reading some reports on these refugees, it appears that at least some of them have been living in Egypt and are now moving to Israel for increased economic opportunity as much as anything. Until recently, Israel has taken in Darfur refugees, but there's been increase in the number of border crossings and many have said they were coming from camps in Egypt. So ISTM perhaps this issue is not as black-and-white as it would first appear. After reading some reports on these refugees, it appears that at least some of them have been living in Egypt and are now moving to Israel for increased economic opportunity as much as anything. Until recently, Israel has taken in Darfur refugees, but there’s been increase in the number of border crossings and many have said they were coming from camps in Egypt.

So ISTM perhaps this issue is not as black-and-white as it would first appear.

]]> By: Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96066 Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés Fri, 24 Aug 2007 03:37:18 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96066 david; would you flesh out the reference "Nike" in your headline? thanks, dr.e david; would you flesh out the reference “Nike” in your headline? thanks,
dr.e

]]> By: David Schraub http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96062 David Schraub Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:29:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96062 We do know at least some Darfuris want to come to Israel, as that is what is provoking this issue in the first place--they try to cross the border from Egypt, and Israel is sending them back. It is, for obvious reasons, much easier to travel from Darfur to Israel than it is to America or Germany, so that's important too. But as I said, I'm perfectly open to negotiating a third-party asylum. But until the details are worked out, sending them back to Egypt is a hideously immoral act. Finally, while I do think there is a case to be made that Israel has a heightened obligation towards genocide refugees just because of the hypocrisy issue, the argument I laid out was more pragmatic than anything. I noted the propensity of nation's to come up with excuse after excuse for not saving genocide victims, and the response of the Jewish community to that evasion has been basically (and rightfully) to call it b.s.. If, after that, we play the same game, not only is our own credibility severely damaged, but the very concept that anybody will ever break out of the rationalization mode might be fatally damaged. We do know at least some Darfuris want to come to Israel, as that is what is provoking this issue in the first place–they try to cross the border from Egypt, and Israel is sending them back. It is, for obvious reasons, much easier to travel from Darfur to Israel than it is to America or Germany, so that’s important too. But as I said, I’m perfectly open to negotiating a third-party asylum. But until the details are worked out, sending them back to Egypt is a hideously immoral act.

Finally, while I do think there is a case to be made that Israel has a heightened obligation towards genocide refugees just because of the hypocrisy issue, the argument I laid out was more pragmatic than anything. I noted the propensity of nation’s to come up with excuse after excuse for not saving genocide victims, and the response of the Jewish community to that evasion has been basically (and rightfully) to call it b.s.. If, after that, we play the same game, not only is our own credibility severely damaged, but the very concept that anybody will ever break out of the rationalization mode might be fatally damaged.

]]> By: Entropy http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96061 Entropy Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:19:17 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96061 To add to Sam's comment, I would think the US would be a better place for Darfur refugees. The USA has long been a country-of-origin for the oppressed, and we already have a multicultural society that would likely be more accommodating to Muslim Africans than most other nations of the world. To add to Sam’s comment, I would think the US would be a better place for Darfur refugees. The USA has long been a country-of-origin for the oppressed, and we already have a multicultural society that would likely be more accommodating to Muslim Africans than most other nations of the world.

]]> By: Entropy http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96060 Entropy Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:17:00 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96060 It seems that your argument appears to be that since most Israelis are Jews, and Jews suffered genocide in the holocaust, that Israel is therefore obligated more than the typical nation - morally at least- to take in any and all refugees from genocide. ISTM this line of reasoning places a greater obligation upon victims of genocide than "regular" folk - is that really fair? I would think that those responsible for committing genocide in the past - Germany and Turkey, for example, should be more obligated to take in such refugees - at least from a moral standpoint. And does this obligation just extend to Israel or to all nations or peoples who have been subjected to genocide? And, it appears you're making the case that if Israel does not accept Darfur refugees that it is hypocritical. Is there any assistance short of accepting refugees that would be morally acceptable in your eyes? And, aren't you assuming that Darfur Muslims would WANT to move to Israel in the first place? From a practical standpoint (different from moral arguments), ISTM that Israel is already at it's maximum capacity for immigration as Jews from around the world move there. As a result, ISTM there are real practical considerations for taking in refugees as Israel is a small state and there are already huge problems with settlements, water supplies, infrastructure, etc. It seems that your argument appears to be that since most Israelis are Jews, and Jews suffered genocide in the holocaust, that Israel is therefore obligated more than the typical nation – morally at least- to take in any and all refugees from genocide. ISTM this line of reasoning places a greater obligation upon victims of genocide than “regular” folk – is that really fair? I would think that those responsible for committing genocide in the past – Germany and Turkey, for example, should be more obligated to take in such refugees – at least from a moral standpoint. And does this obligation just extend to Israel or to all nations or peoples who have been subjected to genocide?

And, it appears you’re making the case that if Israel does not accept Darfur refugees that it is hypocritical. Is there any assistance short of accepting refugees that would be morally acceptable in your eyes? And, aren’t you assuming that Darfur Muslims would WANT to move to Israel in the first place?

From a practical standpoint (different from moral arguments), ISTM that Israel is already at it’s maximum capacity for immigration as Jews from around the world move there. As a result, ISTM there are real practical considerations for taking in refugees as Israel is a small state and there are already huge problems with settlements, water supplies, infrastructure, etc.

]]> By: Sam http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96059 Sam Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:07:50 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96059 It should be done regardless of what the world does as a result. I like to think we would, and would be ashamed of my country if we didn't. It should be done regardless of what the world does as a result. I like to think we would, and would be ashamed of my country if we didn’t.

]]> By: stevesturm http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96058 stevesturm Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:34:09 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96058 they won't, no matter what the Israelis do... or don't do. they won’t, no matter what the Israelis do… or don’t do.

]]> By: David Schraub http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96050 David Schraub Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:41:02 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96050 I can't guarantee that if we do, they will, but I can guarantee you that if we don't, they won't. I can’t guarantee that if we do, they will, but I can guarantee you that if we don’t, they won’t.

]]> By: stevesturm http://themoderatevoice.com/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/comment-page-1/#comment-96048 stevesturm Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:48:17 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/africa/14724/the-nike-theory-of-genocide-response/#comment-96048 And you seriously think that if Israel takes in some refugees from Darfur that the world will stand strong against anti-Semitism and attempts to rid the world of Jews? Hmmm. I have a bridge I'd like to discuss selling. And you seriously think that if Israel takes in some refugees from Darfur that the world will stand strong against anti-Semitism and attempts to rid the world of Jews?

Hmmm. I have a bridge I’d like to discuss selling.

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