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	<title>Comments on: Iraq War: Plans Change, While the Assumptions Remain the Same</title>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92194</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 03:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92194</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see that it was Casey&#039;s fault that Iraqiization didn&#039;t work, any more than it is Petraeus&#039; fault that the Iraqi govt won&#039;t reach political consensus.

The mistakes that were made early on to invade and then to occupy instead of turning the country over early on to the Iraqis are what cost us the war. We are over there stuck in a quagmire that is twice as bad as Vietnam. Not because of what Casey did but because Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz were out of their league when they planned this in the first place. Everyone says we should forget the past and concentrate on the present, but its hard to do when the past created the intransigent problems we are facing in the present.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see that it was Casey&#8217;s fault that Iraqiization didn&#8217;t work, any more than it is Petraeus&#8217; fault that the Iraqi govt won&#8217;t reach political consensus.</p>
<p>The mistakes that were made early on to invade and then to occupy instead of turning the country over early on to the Iraqis are what cost us the war. We are over there stuck in a quagmire that is twice as bad as Vietnam. Not because of what Casey did but because Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz were out of their league when they planned this in the first place. Everyone says we should forget the past and concentrate on the present, but its hard to do when the past created the intransigent problems we are facing in the present.</p>
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		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92191</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92191</guid>
		<description>Rudi,

Casey is this war&#039;s Westmoreland.  He&#039;s a terrible officer, so naturally he was promoted to CSA after doing such a good job in Iraq.

We finally have some good leadership running the war at the operational level, but it&#039;s too little, too late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rudi,</p>
<p>Casey is this war&#8217;s Westmoreland.  He&#8217;s a terrible officer, so naturally he was promoted to CSA after doing such a good job in Iraq.</p>
<p>We finally have some good leadership running the war at the operational level, but it&#8217;s too little, too late.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92184</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92184</guid>
		<description>Entropy - How long before Bremer and Tenet hand a medal on Casey? Seems the Friedman&#039;s and Kristol&#039;s used to say give Casey a chance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Entropy &#8211; How long before Bremer and Tenet hand a medal on Casey? Seems the Friedman&#8217;s and Kristol&#8217;s used to say give Casey a chance.</p>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92130</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92130</guid>
		<description>So has the Iraqi government in making progress towards meeting the benchmarks. Military success will not create an Iraq that can govern or defend itself. Or is that no longer the measure of success??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So has the Iraqi government in making progress towards meeting the benchmarks. Military success will not create an Iraq that can govern or defend itself. Or is that no longer the measure of success??</p>
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		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92117</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92117</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How has â€œweâ€™ll stand down as they stand upâ€, Operation Together Forward and Operation Sinbad worked so far?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, those operations were part of the strategy under Casey - a strategy that everyone agrees failed miserably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>How has â€œweâ€™ll stand down as they stand upâ€, Operation Together Forward and Operation Sinbad worked so far?</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, those operations were part of the strategy under Casey &#8211; a strategy that everyone agrees failed miserably.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92084</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92084</guid>
		<description>How has &quot;we&#039;ll stand down as they stand up&quot;, Operation Together Forward and Operation Sinbad worked so far? Lyxn has it right, the Shia have power and don&#039;t want to share.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How has &#8220;we&#8217;ll stand down as they stand up&#8221;, Operation Together Forward and Operation Sinbad worked so far? Lyxn has it right, the Shia have power and don&#8217;t want to share.</p>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92082</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92082</guid>
		<description>This is just more moving the goalposts with no real sign that the Iraqis can move towards any kind of reconciliation. Sept of 07&#039; just became June of &#039;08, but a civil war may need to rage way beyond that. The Iraqi government still shows no signs of having the popular support that they need to govern, and the Iraqi army is even further behind in its readiness than it was a year ago.

Basically the idea of the surge was to turf this mess to the next administration- and preserve the idea that victory was still possible. Gen Hayden had advised the ISG in &#039;05 that there was almost no chance that the  Iraqi government would be able to govern the country. What little progress has been reported towards meeting the benchmarks was mostly WH spin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just more moving the goalposts with no real sign that the Iraqis can move towards any kind of reconciliation. Sept of 07&#8242; just became June of &#8217;08, but a civil war may need to rage way beyond that. The Iraqi government still shows no signs of having the popular support that they need to govern, and the Iraqi army is even further behind in its readiness than it was a year ago.</p>
<p>Basically the idea of the surge was to turf this mess to the next administration- and preserve the idea that victory was still possible. Gen Hayden had advised the ISG in &#8217;05 that there was almost no chance that the  Iraqi government would be able to govern the country. What little progress has been reported towards meeting the benchmarks was mostly WH spin.</p>
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		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92081</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92081</guid>
		<description>Well, considering the vagarities of domestic politics on Iraq, it seems prudent for our military leaders to at least plan for the long term.  Unlike the Administration, they are considering &quot;what if&#039;s&quot; should underlying assumptions prove false or should circumstances change.  This is all prudent in my view and I think it&#039;s unwise and unfair to ascribe political motivation by military commanders based on this kind of planning.

The decision on the future of US involvement is ultimately political, not military.  Military leaders will, and should, inform the political debate with their expertise, but they cannot assume the war will end in 2008, 2009 or whenever and must be prepared to continue on in Iraq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, considering the vagarities of domestic politics on Iraq, it seems prudent for our military leaders to at least plan for the long term.  Unlike the Administration, they are considering &#8220;what if&#8217;s&#8221; should underlying assumptions prove false or should circumstances change.  This is all prudent in my view and I think it&#8217;s unwise and unfair to ascribe political motivation by military commanders based on this kind of planning.</p>
<p>The decision on the future of US involvement is ultimately political, not military.  Military leaders will, and should, inform the political debate with their expertise, but they cannot assume the war will end in 2008, 2009 or whenever and must be prepared to continue on in Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: University Update - George W Bush - Plans Change, Assumptions the Same</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92073</link>
		<dc:creator>University Update - George W Bush - Plans Change, Assumptions the Same</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92073</guid>
		<description>[...] Clark                       Link to Article                george w bush Plans Change, Assumptions the Same &#187;  Posted at The Moderate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Clark                       Link to Article                george w bush Plans Change, Assumptions the Same &#187;  Posted at The Moderate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lynx</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92068</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92068</guid>
		<description>Amongst the long list of assumptions that have proven in the past to be wrong there is one that has barely been addressed. Conversation centers on the capability of giving the government of Iraq the capacity to contol it&#039;s own country, and little consideration is given to the question of if they have any interest in doing so.

The people want peace, they want to have electricity, to not feel that they might be saying goodbye for the last time every time their child goes to school. But the politicians do not neccesarily care about these things. Instability and even war serves some people just fine. For starters war helps to cover up the incapacity to put your house in order in terms of roads, healthcare, schools etc. since everything can be blamed on the war. A terrified populace will continue to vote for their tribal peers, frightened that if &quot;the others&quot; win, they will be next on the hit list. These powerful men don&#039;t give a damn about &quot;securing the peace&quot;, war works just fine for most of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amongst the long list of assumptions that have proven in the past to be wrong there is one that has barely been addressed. Conversation centers on the capability of giving the government of Iraq the capacity to contol it&#8217;s own country, and little consideration is given to the question of if they have any interest in doing so.</p>
<p>The people want peace, they want to have electricity, to not feel that they might be saying goodbye for the last time every time their child goes to school. But the politicians do not neccesarily care about these things. Instability and even war serves some people just fine. For starters war helps to cover up the incapacity to put your house in order in terms of roads, healthcare, schools etc. since everything can be blamed on the war. A terrified populace will continue to vote for their tribal peers, frightened that if &#8220;the others&#8221; win, they will be next on the hit list. These powerful men don&#8217;t give a damn about &#8220;securing the peace&#8221;, war works just fine for most of them.</p>
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		<title>By: University Update - White House - Plans Change, Assumptions the Same</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/comment-page-1/#comment-92067</link>
		<dc:creator>University Update - White House - Plans Change, Assumptions the Same</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/14199/plans-change-assumptions-stay-the-same/#comment-92067</guid>
		<description>[...] Court                       Link to Article                white house Plans Change, Assumptions the Same &#187;  Posted at The Moderate Voice [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Court                       Link to Article                white house Plans Change, Assumptions the Same &#187;  Posted at The Moderate Voice [...]</p>
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