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	<title>Comments on: Tammy Faye Messner: 1942-2007 What Is Beauty?</title>
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		<title>By: Pajamas Media</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91944</link>
		<dc:creator>Pajamas Media</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91944</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;What Is Beauty?&lt;/strong&gt;

Dr. Clarissa Pinkola EstÃ©s remembers the late Tammy Faye Messner. (The Moderate Voice)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>What Is Beauty?</strong></p>
<p>Dr. Clarissa Pinkola EstÃ©s remembers the late Tammy Faye Messner. (The Moderate Voice)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: rae</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91917</link>
		<dc:creator>rae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91917</guid>
		<description>This woman ...wether you liked her or not...hit rock bottom and came out on top.  She judged NO ONE, and was able to laugh at herself.  Which is why gays loved her.  I believe she was a person who cared about others and walked the walk so to speak.  She admitted that her make up was a gimmick...much the same as Dolly Parton and others.  But the message behind it all was genuine.
I think she was on Larry king for one last time to show us all that while her body was disfigured...her heart and concern for others was not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This woman &#8230;wether you liked her or not&#8230;hit rock bottom and came out on top.  She judged NO ONE, and was able to laugh at herself.  Which is why gays loved her.  I believe she was a person who cared about others and walked the walk so to speak.  She admitted that her make up was a gimmick&#8230;much the same as Dolly Parton and others.  But the message behind it all was genuine.<br />
I think she was on Larry king for one last time to show us all that while her body was disfigured&#8230;her heart and concern for others was not.</p>
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		<title>By: brucewla</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91894</link>
		<dc:creator>brucewla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 02:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91894</guid>
		<description>Well, I can remember the scandal, and thinking at the time, what a shame, that these folks, who so many trusted, turned out to be shady.  I was infuriated by Jim Bakker because like so many of these characters he was a hypocrite. Someone&#039;s personal life is their business, but the PROBLEM is, when you have a pulpit, and thunder to your flock the evils of adultery, and then commit it yourself, well, that&#039;s how you lose creditbility. As far as Tammy Faye, I just pity her. I&#039;m sorry that she passed, and in such an awful, painful way, but I&#039;m most saddned by the picture you ran; look at her there, obviously so close to death, but she still has to wear all that damn mascara. Didn&#039;t anyone EVER have the heart to take her aside and say &quot;that&#039;s too much mascara?&quot; Very sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I can remember the scandal, and thinking at the time, what a shame, that these folks, who so many trusted, turned out to be shady.  I was infuriated by Jim Bakker because like so many of these characters he was a hypocrite. Someone&#8217;s personal life is their business, but the PROBLEM is, when you have a pulpit, and thunder to your flock the evils of adultery, and then commit it yourself, well, that&#8217;s how you lose creditbility. As far as Tammy Faye, I just pity her. I&#8217;m sorry that she passed, and in such an awful, painful way, but I&#8217;m most saddned by the picture you ran; look at her there, obviously so close to death, but she still has to wear all that damn mascara. Didn&#8217;t anyone EVER have the heart to take her aside and say &#8220;that&#8217;s too much mascara?&#8221; Very sad.</p>
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		<title>By: leslene della-madre</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91862</link>
		<dc:creator>leslene della-madre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91862</guid>
		<description>Regardless of what anyone might think of her, Tammy Faye was no doubt a woman of courage. Very few people would have the courage to show the world their dying face--very few. While she still hid behind her makeup, one can clearly see who is gazing  back from underneath it. She was a woman of heart, regardless of her conditioning and oppression. No small feat.
True art is life istself--how we live it, how it lives through us, and what we give back.
As a midwife to the dying,  I encourage readers to read my book, Midwifing Death, to learn more about how the dying process, when met with truth and wisdom, can be free of fear and full of love.

Leslene della-Madre
www.midwifingdeath.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regardless of what anyone might think of her, Tammy Faye was no doubt a woman of courage. Very few people would have the courage to show the world their dying face&#8211;very few. While she still hid behind her makeup, one can clearly see who is gazing  back from underneath it. She was a woman of heart, regardless of her conditioning and oppression. No small feat.<br />
True art is life istself&#8211;how we live it, how it lives through us, and what we give back.<br />
As a midwife to the dying,  I encourage readers to read my book, Midwifing Death, to learn more about how the dying process, when met with truth and wisdom, can be free of fear and full of love.</p>
<p>Leslene della-Madre<br />
<a href="http://www.midwifingdeath.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.midwifingdeath.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: cosmoetica</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91858</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmoetica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91858</guid>
		<description>Good points, Doma, but utterly irrelevant to the post or my riposte.

And I have said nothing that&#039;s in disagreement with your claim, if you read what I wrote, not what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Doma, but utterly irrelevant to the post or my riposte.</p>
<p>And I have said nothing that&#8217;s in disagreement with your claim, if you read what I wrote, not what you think.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91851</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91851</guid>
		<description>In Cosmo&#039;s quest to defend excellence in art and literature, a lot of potential sources for joy and enrichment in life can be missed or even destroyed, IMO.

A child&#039;s efforts with crayons may not be worthy of exhibition in a museum, but the product  represents the child&#039;s interaction with the concepts of form and color.   The child&#039;s esthetic sense has grown in the process.  Likewise, as the doting parent gazes at even the most elementary stick figures, he can grow in his understanding of how the child experiences the world.  Everyone benefits; no one loses.

Nature creates art forms without benefit of judge or jury.  We can either appreciate rock formations for the interesting shapes they are, or shut our eyes because there is something not quite right about the third rock from the left.

Between the lushness of excellence and  the barrenness of nothing, there is a lot of potential for growth of the human spirit.  
To dismiss potential is to throw opportunity in the garbage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Cosmo&#8217;s quest to defend excellence in art and literature, a lot of potential sources for joy and enrichment in life can be missed or even destroyed, IMO.</p>
<p>A child&#8217;s efforts with crayons may not be worthy of exhibition in a museum, but the product  represents the child&#8217;s interaction with the concepts of form and color.   The child&#8217;s esthetic sense has grown in the process.  Likewise, as the doting parent gazes at even the most elementary stick figures, he can grow in his understanding of how the child experiences the world.  Everyone benefits; no one loses.</p>
<p>Nature creates art forms without benefit of judge or jury.  We can either appreciate rock formations for the interesting shapes they are, or shut our eyes because there is something not quite right about the third rock from the left.</p>
<p>Between the lushness of excellence and  the barrenness of nothing, there is a lot of potential for growth of the human spirit.<br />
To dismiss potential is to throw opportunity in the garbage.</p>
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		<title>By: All Spin Zone &#187; Tammy Faye Messner - 03/07/42 to 07/20/07</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91848</link>
		<dc:creator>All Spin Zone &#187; Tammy Faye Messner - 03/07/42 to 07/20/07</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91848</guid>
		<description>[...] reading: What is Beauty, by Dr. Clarissa Pinkola EstÃ©s, writing at The Moderate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reading: What is Beauty, by Dr. Clarissa Pinkola EstÃ©s, writing at The Moderate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cosmoetica</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91844</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmoetica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91844</guid>
		<description>I know she was using the word din a diff context, but it&#039;s still a distortion of the very concept of art.

Her makeup and persona were expressions of ego, not artistry, and if she liked that, so be it. I just tire of hearing every old person being called an artist when even so few of those who even practice the arts are worthy of that title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know she was using the word din a diff context, but it&#8217;s still a distortion of the very concept of art.</p>
<p>Her makeup and persona were expressions of ego, not artistry, and if she liked that, so be it. I just tire of hearing every old person being called an artist when even so few of those who even practice the arts are worthy of that title.</p>
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		<title>By: C Stanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91843</link>
		<dc:creator>C Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91843</guid>
		<description>cosmo,
I took Dr. E&#039;s meaning differently with regard to artistry: I simply inferred the expression of one&#039;s physical self, the image we present to the world, as an artform. The result of that expression of self may be judged good or bad, but I felt that Dr. E was rightly praising the willingness of individuals to engage in the expression of a self image which doesn&#039;t meet the modern standard of conventional beauty. That act itself is completely separate from the way you&#039;d judge the other acts and life of the person, much the way you might admire a performance of an actor or the work of a writer or painter without endorsing his/her personal life choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cosmo,<br />
I took Dr. E&#8217;s meaning differently with regard to artistry: I simply inferred the expression of one&#8217;s physical self, the image we present to the world, as an artform. The result of that expression of self may be judged good or bad, but I felt that Dr. E was rightly praising the willingness of individuals to engage in the expression of a self image which doesn&#8217;t meet the modern standard of conventional beauty. That act itself is completely separate from the way you&#8217;d judge the other acts and life of the person, much the way you might admire a performance of an actor or the work of a writer or painter without endorsing his/her personal life choices.</p>
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		<title>By: cosmoetica</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91841</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmoetica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91841</guid>
		<description>Doc:

If only you had avoided the &#039;all of us are artists&#039; cliche. 

Look, Tammy was a con artist who repented. That&#039;s it. I kind of liked her, but she was an older Anna Nicole with a Bible.

Even as much as I despised the closedmindedness and bigotry of JP2, he at least was a writer and poet- not particularly good- at the level of Mao Tse-Tung, both of whose Collected Poems I own.

But to call Tammy an artist is to trivialize and cheapen the efforts and endeavors of real artists, great artists, who devote their lives to audiences yet born, and those who are few and far between, so that they may be a little wiser and possess an iota more joy.

Scam artists are not artists, and let her rest in peace.

But, if you are irresistibly compelled to label her an artist, please, append the word &#039;scam&#039; ahead of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc:</p>
<p>If only you had avoided the &#8216;all of us are artists&#8217; cliche. </p>
<p>Look, Tammy was a con artist who repented. That&#8217;s it. I kind of liked her, but she was an older Anna Nicole with a Bible.</p>
<p>Even as much as I despised the closedmindedness and bigotry of JP2, he at least was a writer and poet- not particularly good- at the level of Mao Tse-Tung, both of whose Collected Poems I own.</p>
<p>But to call Tammy an artist is to trivialize and cheapen the efforts and endeavors of real artists, great artists, who devote their lives to audiences yet born, and those who are few and far between, so that they may be a little wiser and possess an iota more joy.</p>
<p>Scam artists are not artists, and let her rest in peace.</p>
<p>But, if you are irresistibly compelled to label her an artist, please, append the word &#8216;scam&#8217; ahead of it.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91837</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91837</guid>
		<description>A very thoghtful and thought provoking essay.

It is telling how we usually hide away those visibly dying from the rest of us, those dying less obviously  Perhaps the dying of others is too uncomfortable a reminder that we will be joining their ranks one day.

Ironically, one way to lessen fears about our own deaths would be to make death and the dying a normal part of life - to not hide the dying away and to not turn our eyes from the sight of death.   

Come to that, we hide away great chunks of oher parts of life.  I still can&#039;t get over the national horror over the exposure of a performer&#039;s brest on TV, as if the disovery of what a breast looks like were an earth shattering, life changing experience.  

It is only quite recently that giving birth has stopped beitng a hidden away event and has gained  acceptance as a normal part of life.

We still hide away the less than perfect examples of physical beauty as much as we can.  Not too many members of sitcom families and friends have oversized noses or problems with exzema.  When there is a fat person on board,  the role is touted for its &#039;specialness&#039; which is just another way of hiding overweight  from normal life.  

We run to plastic surgeons to erase our differences and thus narrow the field of what is part of normal appearance jistt like we narrow the field of what is part of normal life by hiding away the dying.

There is another side to frailty, illness and dying, though, because a great deal of private autonomy is lost.  The body is poked and probed and violated and attended to in so many ways by others.that the effect can be quite dehumanizing.  Some react by a wish to be left alone, so they can try to recover a sense of dignity in whatever privacy they can find.

This aspect makes me marvel at Tammy Faye&#039;s voluntary public exposure even more..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very thoghtful and thought provoking essay.</p>
<p>It is telling how we usually hide away those visibly dying from the rest of us, those dying less obviously  Perhaps the dying of others is too uncomfortable a reminder that we will be joining their ranks one day.</p>
<p>Ironically, one way to lessen fears about our own deaths would be to make death and the dying a normal part of life &#8211; to not hide the dying away and to not turn our eyes from the sight of death.   </p>
<p>Come to that, we hide away great chunks of oher parts of life.  I still can&#8217;t get over the national horror over the exposure of a performer&#8217;s brest on TV, as if the disovery of what a breast looks like were an earth shattering, life changing experience.  </p>
<p>It is only quite recently that giving birth has stopped beitng a hidden away event and has gained  acceptance as a normal part of life.</p>
<p>We still hide away the less than perfect examples of physical beauty as much as we can.  Not too many members of sitcom families and friends have oversized noses or problems with exzema.  When there is a fat person on board,  the role is touted for its &#8216;specialness&#8217; which is just another way of hiding overweight  from normal life.  </p>
<p>We run to plastic surgeons to erase our differences and thus narrow the field of what is part of normal appearance jistt like we narrow the field of what is part of normal life by hiding away the dying.</p>
<p>There is another side to frailty, illness and dying, though, because a great deal of private autonomy is lost.  The body is poked and probed and violated and attended to in so many ways by others.that the effect can be quite dehumanizing.  Some react by a wish to be left alone, so they can try to recover a sense of dignity in whatever privacy they can find.</p>
<p>This aspect makes me marvel at Tammy Faye&#8217;s voluntary public exposure even more..</p>
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		<title>By: Tammy Faye Messner: 1942-2007 What Is Beauty? &#183; Articles</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/comment-page-1/#comment-91824</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammy Faye Messner: 1942-2007 What Is Beauty? &#183; Articles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 08:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/art/14154/tammy-faye-messner-1942-2007-what-is-beauty/#comment-91824</guid>
		<description>[...] What did JPII want us to see? (more&#8230;) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What did JPII want us to see? (more&#8230;) [...]</p>
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