Comments on: Is The New Mantra “Al Qaeda Is Around Every Corner?” (UPDATED) http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:42:35 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Bush Again Links Iraq Al Qaeda To 911 Al Qaeda · Articles http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-92201 Bush Again Links Iraq Al Qaeda To 911 Al Qaeda · Articles Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:32:24 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-92201 [...] And yesterday, the seeming belief that if you restate something repeatedly you can eventually sell it (even if others have said it is either a weak argument or an outright wrong one) seemed on display when President George Bush delivered a defiant speech in which he again asserted that the U.S. is fighting 911-linked Al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq. Many experts dispute that. (It has also been a big journalistic issue. Re-read THIS POST. [...] [...] And yesterday, the seeming belief that if you restate something repeatedly you can eventually sell it (even if others have said it is either a weak argument or an outright wrong one) seemed on display when President George Bush delivered a defiant speech in which he again asserted that the U.S. is fighting 911-linked Al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq. Many experts dispute that. (It has also been a big journalistic issue. Re-read THIS POST. [...]

]]> By: Bush Again Links Iraq Al Qaeda To 911 Al Qaeda · New York Articles http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-92199 Bush Again Links Iraq Al Qaeda To 911 Al Qaeda · New York Articles Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:03:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-92199 [...] And yesterday, the seeming belief that if you restate something repeatedly you can eventually sell it (even if others have said it is either a weak argument or an outright wrong one) seemed on display when President George Bush delivered a defiant speech in which he again asserted that the U.S. is fighting 911-linked Al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq. Many experts dispute that. (It has also been a big journalistic issue. Re-read THIS POST. [...] [...] And yesterday, the seeming belief that if you restate something repeatedly you can eventually sell it (even if others have said it is either a weak argument or an outright wrong one) seemed on display when President George Bush delivered a defiant speech in which he again asserted that the U.S. is fighting 911-linked Al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq. Many experts dispute that. (It has also been a big journalistic issue. Re-read THIS POST. [...]

]]> By: Bush Again Links Iraq Al Qaeda To 911 Al Qaeda » The Moderate Voice http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-92196 Bush Again Links Iraq Al Qaeda To 911 Al Qaeda » The Moderate Voice Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:07:39 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-92196 [...] And yesterday, the seeming belief that if you restate something repeatedly you can eventually sell it (even if others have said it is either a weak argument or an outright wrong one) seemed on display when President George Bush delivered a defiant speech in which he again asserted that the U.S. is fighting 911-linked Al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq. Many experts dispute that. (It has also been a big journalist issue. Re-read THIS POST. [...] [...] And yesterday, the seeming belief that if you restate something repeatedly you can eventually sell it (even if others have said it is either a weak argument or an outright wrong one) seemed on display when President George Bush delivered a defiant speech in which he again asserted that the U.S. is fighting 911-linked Al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq. Many experts dispute that. (It has also been a big journalist issue. Re-read THIS POST. [...]

]]> By: Is The New Mantra “Al Qaeda Is Around Every Corner?” (UPDATED) · New York Articles http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-91794 Is The New Mantra “Al Qaeda Is Around Every Corner?” (UPDATED) · New York Articles Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:03:44 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-91794 [...] (3) The basic job of a newspaper to always be skeptical of everyone of any party and to question – something that may anger axe-to-grind partisans but is critical if the news media is to be more than a public relations stenographic media easily manipulated by those in power who realize journalists are human and could unintentionally or otherwise take the easy way out. (more…) [...] [...] (3) The basic job of a newspaper to always be skeptical of everyone of any party and to question – something that may anger axe-to-grind partisans but is critical if the news media is to be more than a public relations stenographic media easily manipulated by those in power who realize journalists are human and could unintentionally or otherwise take the easy way out. (more…) [...]

]]> By: Osama bin Laden Is Back And So Is Political Use Of Him · Articles http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-90853 Osama bin Laden Is Back And So Is Political Use Of Him · Articles Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:49:17 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-90853 [...] our post HERE on New York Times Public Editor Clark Hoyt who looks extensively at this issue (and offers some [...] [...] our post HERE on New York Times Public Editor Clark Hoyt who looks extensively at this issue (and offers some [...]

]]> By: Osama bin Laden Is Back And So Is Political Use Of Him » The Moderate Voice http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-90850 Osama bin Laden Is Back And So Is Political Use Of Him » The Moderate Voice Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:17:11 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-90850 [...] our post HERE on New York Times Public Editor Clark Hoyt who looks extensively at this [...] [...] our post HERE on New York Times Public Editor Clark Hoyt who looks extensively at this [...]

]]> By: Is The New Mantra “Al Qaeda Is Around Every Corner?” (UPDATED) · Articles http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-90591 Is The New Mantra “Al Qaeda Is Around Every Corner?” (UPDATED) · Articles Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:39:23 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-90591 [...] (3) The basic job of a newspaper to always be skeptical of everyone of any party and to question – something that may anger axe-to-grind partisans but is critical if the news media is to be more than a public relations stenographic media easily manipulated by those in power who realize journalists are human and could unintentionally or otherwise take the easy way out. (more…) [...] [...] (3) The basic job of a newspaper to always be skeptical of everyone of any party and to question – something that may anger axe-to-grind partisans but is critical if the news media is to be more than a public relations stenographic media easily manipulated by those in power who realize journalists are human and could unintentionally or otherwise take the easy way out. (more…) [...]

]]> By: Is The New Mantra “Al Qaeda Is Around Every Corner?” · Articles http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-90555 Is The New Mantra “Al Qaeda Is Around Every Corner?” · Articles Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:37:18 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-90555 [...] (3) The basic job of a newspaper to always be skeptical of everyone of any party and to question – something that may anger axe-to-grind partisans but is critical if the news media is to be more than a public relations stenographic media easily manipulated by those in power who realize journalists are human and could unintentionally or otherwise take the easy way out. (more…) [...] [...] (3) The basic job of a newspaper to always be skeptical of everyone of any party and to question – something that may anger axe-to-grind partisans but is critical if the news media is to be more than a public relations stenographic media easily manipulated by those in power who realize journalists are human and could unintentionally or otherwise take the easy way out. (more…) [...]

]]> By: cognitorex http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-90238 cognitorex Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:03:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-90238 <strong>Cheney Leers in Delight that Al Quaida has foothold in Iraq</strong> Among all of Dick Cheney's distasteful contorted facial expressions, the one that was most chilling and evil, which I wish that I had not seen, was the leer he transmitted to a GOP faithful audience when he disclosed that AQ in Iraq now numbers fifteen thousand. His leer fully transmitted that he used propaganda and lies, that AQ was connected to Iraq, to get our guns and oil companies into Iraq. It also transmitted the, to him, deliciously evil twist that the lie has now morphed into the truth. That AQ is now several thousand strong in Iraq is a grotesque result of the pathetically naive Neocon misadventure. It's also a plank in their arguments that we need to stay. For the GOP mantra "if we don't kill them there, they will follow us here" to be true, the GOP, with the help of the NYT et al, must broadcast mightily AQ's acendancy in Iraq. "The dolts, (meaning the American public and the MSM), don't have a clue as to what evil we will employ to accomplish our goals," is what Cheney's leer beams to the mightiest of the Bush base. ...as the sunlight flickered on the flag in his lapel... Cheney Leers in Delight that Al Quaida has foothold in Iraq

Among all of Dick Cheney’s distasteful contorted facial expressions, the one that was most chilling and evil, which I wish that I had not seen, was the leer he transmitted to a GOP faithful audience when he disclosed that AQ in Iraq now numbers fifteen thousand.

His leer fully transmitted that he used propaganda and lies, that AQ was connected to Iraq, to get our guns and oil companies into Iraq. It also transmitted the, to him, deliciously evil twist that the lie has now morphed into the truth.

That AQ is now several thousand strong in Iraq is a grotesque result of the pathetically naive Neocon misadventure. It’s also a plank in their arguments that we need to stay. For the GOP mantra “if we don’t kill them there, they will follow us here” to be true, the GOP, with the help of the NYT et al, must broadcast mightily AQ’s acendancy in Iraq.

“The dolts, (meaning the American public and the MSM), don’t have a clue as to what evil we will employ to accomplish our goals,” is what Cheney’s leer beams to the mightiest of the Bush base.

…as the sunlight flickered on the flag in his lapel…

]]> By: A Glimmer of Hope for the News Media « Green Dreams http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-90068 A Glimmer of Hope for the News Media « Green Dreams Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:23:28 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-90068 [...] to Joe Gandelman at TMV for noting this item from the NYT AS domestic support for the war in Iraq continues to melt away, [...] [...] to Joe Gandelman at TMV for noting this item from the NYT AS domestic support for the war in Iraq continues to melt away, [...]

]]> By: GreenDreams http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89919 GreenDreams Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:08:20 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89919 It's propaganda to name the "enemy" as the boogeyman Al Qaeda (and we're killing them every day), to surreptitiously tie Iraq once again, to 9/11. I suspect that it played well in focus groups. It’s propaganda to name the “enemy” as the boogeyman Al Qaeda (and we’re killing them every day), to surreptitiously tie Iraq once again, to 9/11. I suspect that it played well in focus groups.

]]> By: Chris http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89912 Chris Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:50:13 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89912 Jason, Yeah, I can see that happening. That's why I hate arguing with people who never address the topic at hand and continue to just blast the source or sources of information. Usually you can use logic, past news, history and science to help make that leap from skeptic to believer. As for the Al Qaeda issue, it seems like a large amount of skepticism is required by logic. What everyone seemed to agree on a few short months ago was that Al Qaeda and other foreign operatives only made up less than 10% (some say 5%) of the insurgency. We also know that the administration wasn't making these claims about killing Al Qaeda on a daily basis. What reason do we have to believe that all of the sudden everyone that the U.S. kills is Al Qaeda, if they do indeed make up such a small percentage of the insurgency and if they had hardly been mentioned before? Also, how is it possible for the U.S. to even tell the difference between an Al Qaeda corpse and just a regular insurgent or an innocent civilian? Jason,
Yeah, I can see that happening. That’s why I hate arguing with people who never address the topic at hand and continue to just blast the source or sources of information.

Usually you can use logic, past news, history and science to help make that leap from skeptic to believer.

As for the Al Qaeda issue, it seems like a large amount of skepticism is required by logic. What everyone seemed to agree on a few short months ago was that Al Qaeda and other foreign operatives only made up less than 10% (some say 5%) of the insurgency. We also know that the administration wasn’t making these claims about killing Al Qaeda on a daily basis.

What reason do we have to believe that all of the sudden everyone that the U.S. kills is Al Qaeda, if they do indeed make up such a small percentage of the insurgency and if they had hardly been mentioned before?

Also, how is it possible for the U.S. to even tell the difference between an Al Qaeda corpse and just a regular insurgent or an innocent civilian?

]]> By: Jason Steck http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89907 Jason Steck Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:42:39 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89907 Of course, I recognize the difference in definition between skepticism and rejection, but I also observe that what usually <i>happens</I> around here is rejection, not skepticism. This is probably inevitable because your conditions can almost never obtain. You establish a conceptual bias in favor of rejection at the point that you require "verification" before accepting any particular kind of report. Since we can almost never have independent "verification" of al-Qaeda membership in Iraq, "skepticism" winds up functioning exactly the same as "rejection". Of course, I recognize the difference in definition between skepticism and rejection, but I also observe that what usually happens around here is rejection, not skepticism. This is probably inevitable because your conditions can almost never obtain. You establish a conceptual bias in favor of rejection at the point that you require “verification” before accepting any particular kind of report. Since we can almost never have independent “verification” of al-Qaeda membership in Iraq, “skepticism” winds up functioning exactly the same as “rejection”.

]]> By: Chris http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89905 Chris Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:33:48 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89905 Jason, Why are you still ignoring the difference between skepticism and rejection? Jason,
Why are you still ignoring the difference between skepticism and rejection?

]]> By: Jason Steck http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89902 Jason Steck Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:25:04 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89902 Well, GreenDreams, because of their histories of distorting and selecting reporting, I don't consider some of those "responsible journalists" to be "reliable sources" either. Where would that leave us? The idea that we just dismiss everything that is claimed to happen because we have lost trust in the administration strikes me as extremely dangerous. Think of how al-Qaeda could exploit that -- "hey, we can do anything we want and those 'smart people' in the West won't believe the reports that say we're out here". Is the administration over-using the "al-Qaeda" designation? Probably. Does that mean that ALL reports of al-Qaeda activity are made up? NO. Well, GreenDreams, because of their histories of distorting and selecting reporting, I don’t consider some of those “responsible journalists” to be “reliable sources” either. Where would that leave us?

The idea that we just dismiss everything that is claimed to happen because we have lost trust in the administration strikes me as extremely dangerous. Think of how al-Qaeda could exploit that — “hey, we can do anything we want and those ’smart people’ in the West won’t believe the reports that say we’re out here”.

Is the administration over-using the “al-Qaeda” designation? Probably. Does that mean that ALL reports of al-Qaeda activity are made up? NO.

]]> By: GreenDreams http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89900 GreenDreams Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:15:48 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89900 Jason, another point here is that the administration can no longer be considered "a reliable source". Responsible journalists can't give them "the benefit of the doubt," after so many distortions and outright lies. I don't think it is ever acceptable for the media to just parrot the statements of partisan spokespersons. Jason, another point here is that the administration can no longer be considered “a reliable source”. Responsible journalists can’t give them “the benefit of the doubt,” after so many distortions and outright lies. I don’t think it is ever acceptable for the media to just parrot the statements of partisan spokespersons.

]]> By: Chris http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89898 Chris Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:58:15 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89898 too=two* too=two*

]]> By: Chris http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89897 Chris Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:57:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89897 Jason, Skepticism and rejection are too entirely different things. A proper journalist should question every claim by every source, especially if that journalist is going to present it without qualification. Without independent verification no journalist should ever say: "Coalition forces killed 30 Al Qaeda operatives in an airstrike Sunday." It would instead be: "Coalition forces report that they have killed 30 Al Qaeda operatives in an airstrike Sunday." Jason,
Skepticism and rejection are too entirely different things. A proper journalist should question every claim by every source, especially if that journalist is going to present it without qualification.

Without independent verification no journalist should ever say: “Coalition forces killed 30 Al Qaeda operatives in an airstrike Sunday.”

It would instead be: “Coalition forces report that they have killed 30 Al Qaeda operatives in an airstrike Sunday.”

]]> By: Jason Steck http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89889 Jason Steck Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:23:07 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89889 Is it any less of a logical error to automatically reject every claim from a certain source than it is to automatically accept every claim? Is it any less of a logical error to automatically reject every claim from a certain source than it is to automatically accept every claim?

]]> By: GreenDreams http://themoderatevoice.com/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-89888 GreenDreams Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:19:25 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/military/13938/is-the-new-mantra-al-qaeda-is-around-every-corner/#comment-89888 This is very good news, I think; that "the news" is starting to question its uncritical reporting of administration factoids. Why should the media, a for-profit business that relies on credibility and integrity as key selling points, follow this president-who has no credibility left-on his relentless downward slide? I guess we can't personally take credit for it, but I believe the blogosphere, and a growing cadre of citizen journalists like you and me, are helping to blast the mainstream media out of its complacency. It's an amazing thing to behold, when everyday citizens show more curiosity, more critical thought, and more determination to get to the real story than those in the news media itself. Of course, the business of media includes owners dictating coverage and an unwholesome sensitivity to advertiser issues. In any case, it was certainly not the MSM that started questioning this Al Qaeda mantra. It was you guys. The online world has the power to reshape the media. As more people turn to online sources including blogs, You Tube and other online sources for news they aren't getting on TV, the mainstream media will increasingly find its shortcomings exposed. Plus, viral videos are becoming a powerful, inexpensive new way to do political advertising, and this too threatens the bottom line of the mainstream media. Now, I'm not getting delusional here. The MSM has lots of power, and lots of viewers, but millions of people are finding that current events reporting online is often more credible, investigative, interactive and fun. This is very good news, I think; that “the news” is starting to question its uncritical reporting of administration factoids. Why should the media, a for-profit business that relies on credibility and integrity as key selling points, follow this president-who has no credibility left-on his relentless downward slide?

I guess we can’t personally take credit for it, but I believe the blogosphere, and a growing cadre of citizen journalists like you and me, are helping to blast the mainstream media out of its complacency. It’s an amazing thing to behold, when everyday citizens show more curiosity, more critical thought, and more determination to get to the real story than those in the news media itself. Of course, the business of media includes owners dictating coverage and an unwholesome sensitivity to advertiser issues.

In any case, it was certainly not the MSM that started questioning this Al Qaeda mantra. It was you guys. The online world has the power to reshape the media. As more people turn to online sources including blogs, You Tube and other online sources for news they aren’t getting on TV, the mainstream media will increasingly find its shortcomings exposed. Plus, viral videos are becoming a powerful, inexpensive new way to do political advertising, and this too threatens the bottom line of the mainstream media. Now, I’m not getting delusional here. The MSM has lots of power, and lots of viewers, but millions of people are finding that current events reporting online is often more credible, investigative, interactive and fun.

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