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	<title>Comments on: U.S. Pulled Plug On 2005 Al Qaeda Chiefs Raid And Irked Intelligence Specialists</title>
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		<title>By: Somebody</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/comment-page-1/#comment-89856</link>
		<dc:creator>Somebody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/#comment-89856</guid>
		<description>Pakistan is hanging on by its fingernails and if the USA goes invading its country in raids for bad guys the scales would be tipped.

I would think this is the first bit of GOOD news to come out of the Bush Administration.

I have to disagree with almost every assertion made by Joe.  This is a case of the Administration(JOE) taking the facts and making a story to fit HIS conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pakistan is hanging on by its fingernails and if the USA goes invading its country in raids for bad guys the scales would be tipped.</p>
<p>I would think this is the first bit of GOOD news to come out of the Bush Administration.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with almost every assertion made by Joe.  This is a case of the Administration(JOE) taking the facts and making a story to fit HIS conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/comment-page-1/#comment-89791</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/#comment-89791</guid>
		<description>It just hammers home the point that there are limits to America&#039;s power that we as a nationalistic country don&#039;t want to face. It made us feel better to pretend we were going after Bin Laden in 2001, but the hunt has always been a farce, because we couldn&#039;t afford the fallout if we actually succeeded in the mission. Its difficult for American politicians to acknowlege the reality of Bin Laden&#039;s near hero status in the Arab world, and to recognize that actually killing or capturing him might topple already shaky governments that we rely on to repress Islamic extremism. 

I&#039;d rather hear the hard truth, that he&#039;s untouchable because his anti-American stance has made him an icon in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan, than hear a lot of tough cowboy rhetoric that&#039;s hollowness reveals our innermost weaknesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just hammers home the point that there are limits to America&#8217;s power that we as a nationalistic country don&#8217;t want to face. It made us feel better to pretend we were going after Bin Laden in 2001, but the hunt has always been a farce, because we couldn&#8217;t afford the fallout if we actually succeeded in the mission. Its difficult for American politicians to acknowlege the reality of Bin Laden&#8217;s near hero status in the Arab world, and to recognize that actually killing or capturing him might topple already shaky governments that we rely on to repress Islamic extremism. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather hear the hard truth, that he&#8217;s untouchable because his anti-American stance has made him an icon in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan, than hear a lot of tough cowboy rhetoric that&#8217;s hollowness reveals our innermost weaknesses.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/comment-page-1/#comment-89760</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 07:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/#comment-89760</guid>
		<description>I make two conclusions from this develpment.

1. This provides more evidence of what a bad idea it was to invade Iraq, because regional consequences were so poorly assessed.   Pakistan has always been  a shaky, and, in many ways unreliable, ally.
Wih Mushraf&#039;s regime now tottering, we haven&#039;t seen the worst of that yet.  Particulary worrisome is the rise of the extremists in a country with nuclear power.
I&#039;ve heard allegations (so far heavily disputed) that some extremist have infiltrated Pakistan&#039;t army, which is in charge of sageguarding nuclear facilities. 
Then, too, there is something schizpphrenic about paying off one despot in order to topple another  

2.  The amount of false messaging all through this period  to do with Iraq has resulted in a situation where one can&#039;t be sure if anything at all we hear and read is true.   
The administration makes statements.
The Democrats make other statements,
Then a news story like this comes out.
We&#039;ll have 5 different interpretations withing hours.

This is by far the worst effect of this whole misuadventure.    We&#039;re living in an all spin zone, and the idea of an informed public making rational judgments and political choices  is disappearing by daily increments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I make two conclusions from this develpment.</p>
<p>1. This provides more evidence of what a bad idea it was to invade Iraq, because regional consequences were so poorly assessed.   Pakistan has always been  a shaky, and, in many ways unreliable, ally.<br />
Wih Mushraf&#8217;s regime now tottering, we haven&#8217;t seen the worst of that yet.  Particulary worrisome is the rise of the extremists in a country with nuclear power.<br />
I&#8217;ve heard allegations (so far heavily disputed) that some extremist have infiltrated Pakistan&#8217;t army, which is in charge of sageguarding nuclear facilities.<br />
Then, too, there is something schizpphrenic about paying off one despot in order to topple another  </p>
<p>2.  The amount of false messaging all through this period  to do with Iraq has resulted in a situation where one can&#8217;t be sure if anything at all we hear and read is true.<br />
The administration makes statements.<br />
The Democrats make other statements,<br />
Then a news story like this comes out.<br />
We&#8217;ll have 5 different interpretations withing hours.</p>
<p>This is by far the worst effect of this whole misuadventure.    We&#8217;re living in an all spin zone, and the idea of an informed public making rational judgments and political choices  is disappearing by daily increments.</p>
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		<title>By: pacatrue</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/comment-page-1/#comment-89759</link>
		<dc:creator>pacatrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 06:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/#comment-89759</guid>
		<description>I guess I disagree with some of the implications of this post. I definitely agree that Rumsfeld can be criticized for making the wrong decision on the raid. But I don&#039;t think this is a case of incompetent civilians overruling the actual people with experience in the way that the Bush administration has been caught changing the recommendations of scientists at the EPA and other places. In that case, the scientists are the ones with the knowledge and civilians are overruling them to fit their own notions.

Here, the CIA and military have great skill in conducting wars and engaging in covert operations. If Rumsfeld had redesigned their operation to fit his own ideas, then he should be doubly criticized. However, it sounds as if what he did was decide the possible benefits of the operation were not worth risking the relationship with Pakistan over. Managing a relationship with another state is not a skill that the CIA or military has any particular ability with. That is the sort of decision that a civilian should make. (Though it sounds like something that the NSA, state dept, or Prez should be at least involved in more than Rumsfeld.)

It&#039;s also not clear that distraction over the Iraq operation is to blame, since the Pakistan relationship is not particularly important to that operation.

In short, I think that Rumsfeld can be legitimately criticized for the decision not to perform a raid in Pakistan&#039;s territory, but Iraq is not necessarily to blame for the bad decision nor is it a case of Rumsfeld making a decision that only the military is qualified to make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I disagree with some of the implications of this post. I definitely agree that Rumsfeld can be criticized for making the wrong decision on the raid. But I don&#8217;t think this is a case of incompetent civilians overruling the actual people with experience in the way that the Bush administration has been caught changing the recommendations of scientists at the EPA and other places. In that case, the scientists are the ones with the knowledge and civilians are overruling them to fit their own notions.</p>
<p>Here, the CIA and military have great skill in conducting wars and engaging in covert operations. If Rumsfeld had redesigned their operation to fit his own ideas, then he should be doubly criticized. However, it sounds as if what he did was decide the possible benefits of the operation were not worth risking the relationship with Pakistan over. Managing a relationship with another state is not a skill that the CIA or military has any particular ability with. That is the sort of decision that a civilian should make. (Though it sounds like something that the NSA, state dept, or Prez should be at least involved in more than Rumsfeld.)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also not clear that distraction over the Iraq operation is to blame, since the Pakistan relationship is not particularly important to that operation.</p>
<p>In short, I think that Rumsfeld can be legitimately criticized for the decision not to perform a raid in Pakistan&#8217;s territory, but Iraq is not necessarily to blame for the bad decision nor is it a case of Rumsfeld making a decision that only the military is qualified to make.</p>
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		<title>By: Ejoiner</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/comment-page-1/#comment-89758</link>
		<dc:creator>Ejoiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 05:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joe, Joe, Joe...you must not have learned the lesson from the past seven years of Republican rule: IOKIYAR.

Didn&#039;t you get the memo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, Joe, Joe&#8230;you must not have learned the lesson from the past seven years of Republican rule: IOKIYAR.</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t you get the memo?</p>
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		<title>By: University Update - Iraq - U.S. Pulled Plug On 2005 Al Qaeda Chiefs Raid And Irked Intelligence Specialists</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/comment-page-1/#comment-89755</link>
		<dc:creator>University Update - Iraq - U.S. Pulled Plug On 2005 Al Qaeda Chiefs Raid And Irked Intelligence Specialists</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 04:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/13928/us-pulled-plug-on-2005-al-qaeda-chiefs-raid-and-irked-intelligence-specialists/#comment-89755</guid>
		<description>[...] House                       Link to Article                iraq U.S. Pulled Plug On 2005 Al Qaeda Chiefs Raid And Irked Intelligence [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] House                       Link to Article                iraq U.S. Pulled Plug On 2005 Al Qaeda Chiefs Raid And Irked Intelligence [...]</p>
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