Comments on: Notes on “Reclaiming Control of U.S. Security in the Middle East” http://themoderatevoice.com/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Mon, 28 May 2012 00:29:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Sad Statz and PBH's New Internet Celebrity | Prose Before Hos http://themoderatevoice.com/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/comment-page-1/#comment-87982 Sad Statz and PBH's New Internet Celebrity | Prose Before Hos Thu, 28 Jun 2007 18:58:55 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/liberals/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/#comment-87982 [...] worth checking out: Notes on Reclaiming Control of U.S. Security in the Middle East, Which one is…, When PHD’s get frustrated, Coming Anarchy with a cool post on mapping [...] [...] worth checking out: Notes on Reclaiming Control of U.S. Security in the Middle East, Which one is…, When PHD’s get frustrated, Coming Anarchy with a cool post on mapping [...]

]]> By: domajot http://themoderatevoice.com/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/comment-page-1/#comment-87905 domajot Thu, 28 Jun 2007 13:02:57 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/liberals/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/#comment-87905 In relation to the other comments, my negativity is quite a bit less. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is, indeed, one factor in fueling extremism in the ME. Even just reducing the level of violence in Gaza would be a good thing for the entire region. It isn't that the plan is bad, IMO. It's just that it's so hard to achieve progress on any point. One reason is that any movement in this direction is too darn late. All the years of keeping hopes pinned on establishing the miracle of a democratic Iraq as an example for the rest of the ME to follow,, created a time warp as far as any other efforts go. Now we have to play catch-up. Plus, we would be starting further back than square one, because the situation has deteriorated so badly in the meantime. Diplomatic avenues, for example, take years and years to develop. You can't leap forward from zero. Nevertheless, I would support any effort to start work along the lines of this plan. Things are not going to impove by themselves. It's just that I'm not very optimistic about achieving anything more than small steps in the right direction during a long. long initial phase. In relation to the other comments, my negativity is quite a bit less.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is, indeed, one factor in fueling extremism in the ME. Even just reducing the level of violence in Gaza would be a good thing for the entire region.

It isn’t that the plan is bad, IMO. It’s just that it’s so hard to achieve progress on any point. One reason is that any movement in this direction is too darn late.
All the years of keeping hopes pinned on establishing the miracle of a democratic Iraq as an example for the rest of the ME to follow,, created a time warp as far as any other efforts go.
Now we have to play catch-up. Plus, we would be starting further back than square one, because the situation has deteriorated so badly in the meantime.
Diplomatic avenues, for example, take years and years to develop. You can’t leap forward from zero.

Nevertheless, I would support any effort to start work along the lines of this plan. Things are not going to impove by themselves.
It’s just that I’m not very optimistic about achieving anything more than small steps in the right direction during a long. long initial phase.

]]> By: Ksully http://themoderatevoice.com/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/comment-page-1/#comment-87876 Ksully Thu, 28 Jun 2007 01:51:19 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/liberals/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/#comment-87876 I got about half way through the whole thing, and I have to say Michael, I wasn't terribly impressed. First, it works under this faulty notion that we are dealing with actors of good faith in Iran, Syria, and even Saudi Arabia or Turkey. I'm also pretty tired of this notion that we must coddle terrorists. Don't give them a rally cry! The plan doesn't call for total withdrawal, it calls for "re-deployment," which means American troops will still be on Muslim land. As long as one soldier remains, they'll have their "rally cry." It also refers to solving the Arab/Israeli conflict as a bullet point, and repeatedly counts on resolutions and edicts passed by the UN. What about the behavior of the UN since 1947 gives anybody faith in that institution? Their Human Rights Commission is an absolute joke, and they have only legitimized terrorists like Arafat over the past 3-4 decades. I'm as much a sucker for these seemingly comprehensive plans as the next guy is, and it has some merits, but for the most part it reads like something one might expect from an anti-war think tank. I got about half way through the whole thing, and I have to say Michael, I wasn’t terribly impressed.

First, it works under this faulty notion that we are dealing with actors of good faith in Iran, Syria, and even Saudi Arabia or Turkey.

I’m also pretty tired of this notion that we must coddle terrorists. Don’t give them a rally cry! The plan doesn’t call for total withdrawal, it calls for “re-deployment,” which means American troops will still be on Muslim land. As long as one soldier remains, they’ll have their “rally cry.”

It also refers to solving the Arab/Israeli conflict as a bullet point, and repeatedly counts on resolutions and edicts passed by the UN. What about the behavior of the UN since 1947 gives anybody faith in that institution? Their Human Rights Commission is an absolute joke, and they have only legitimized terrorists like Arafat over the past 3-4 decades.

I’m as much a sucker for these seemingly comprehensive plans as the next guy is, and it has some merits, but for the most part it reads like something one might expect from an anti-war think tank.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/comment-page-1/#comment-87863 DLS Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:13:54 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/liberals/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/#comment-87863 Q: What's the solution to the problems the USA has with health care, immigration, or anything else? A: Resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Q: What’s the solution to the problems the USA has with health care, immigration, or anything else?

A: Resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/comment-page-1/#comment-87857 DLS Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:54:05 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/liberals/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/#comment-87857 Domajot: <blockquote>I notice the plan includes devolving the Israeli-Arab conflict.</blockquote> Every time this is introduced, it's BS when describing any plan for Iraq or any other place than the Territories. There is no such thing as Middle Eastern "centrality" and all-overriding-importance of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and resolving this is in no way essential to or even associated with the problems in <strong>Iraq</strong> or any other place. Shiites killing Sunnis and attacks on Kurds have <strong>nothing</strong> to do with Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. It simply is an excuse either for more hand-wringing or shoving more concessions down Israel's throat (the usual routine). Domajot:

I notice the plan includes devolving the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Every time this is introduced, it’s BS when describing any plan for Iraq or any other place than the Territories. There is no such thing as Middle Eastern “centrality” and all-overriding-importance of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and resolving this is in no way essential to or even associated with the problems in Iraq or any other place. Shiites killing Sunnis and attacks on Kurds have nothing to do with Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. It simply is an excuse either for more hand-wringing or shoving more concessions down Israel’s throat (the usual routine).

]]> By: University Update - Iraq - Notes on “Reclaiming Control of U.S. Security in the Middle East” http://themoderatevoice.com/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/comment-page-1/#comment-87819 University Update - Iraq - Notes on “Reclaiming Control of U.S. Security in the Middle East” Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:46:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/liberals/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/#comment-87819 [...] Korea Link to Article iraq Notes on “Reclaiming Control of U.S. Security in the Middle East” » [...] [...] Korea Link to Article iraq Notes on “Reclaiming Control of U.S. Security in the Middle East” » [...]

]]> By: domajot http://themoderatevoice.com/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/comment-page-1/#comment-87812 domajot Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:55:27 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/liberals/13754/notes-by-%e2%80%9creclaiming-control-of-us-security-in-the-middle-east/#comment-87812 Sounds good to me. Now, how do we actually achieve all that? I notice the plan includes devolving the Israeli-Arab conflict. That's a mighty tall order in itself. I don't mean to be so negative. It's essential to set goals. Still, I agree completely with the statement: "The United States has no good options" Sounds good to me.
Now, how do we actually achieve all that?
I notice the plan includes devolving the Israeli-Arab conflict. That’s a mighty tall order in itself.

I don’t mean to be so negative. It’s essential to set goals.
Still, I agree completely with the statement: “The United States has no good options”

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