That does not make me a bigot. The biggest bigot in this discussion is you steve. Your continuance at calling everyone opposed to this with the blanket statement bigot is plain wrong and biggoted to the nth degree.

I pointed out my opposition to this bill which has NOTHING to do with bigotry or Amenesty and everything to do with just a bad and poorly written bill.

People not paying attention ‘think’ they are against the current legislation because of a obscene rants from a small minority of terrified bigots and right wing talk hate radio and it’s ditto-heads.

I was pointing out WHY I am against this stupid bill.

Hate is overwhelmingly coming from the left, and has since 1980 (with earlier genesis in the 1960s)

Boy ain’t it the truth… Every time I hear Peter, Paul and Mary or listen to ‘A Prairie Home Companion’ I just cringe.

Right now I’m watching that lefty Paul Simon being awarded the 1st Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song… what do you bet they leave out the part of his lefty liberal stunts down in Africa.

Effective Date Triggers.

What exactly do “Effective Date Triggers” have to do with my pointing out that MOST Americans want congress, “to provide a way for people who are in this country illegally to gain legal citizenship…”?

It seems that, since you can’t refute a position you don’t like, you’re just trying to change the subject.

Effective Date Triggers.

shall become effective on the date that the Secretary submits a written
certification to the President and the Congress that the following
border security and other measures are funded, in place, and in
operation:

(1) Staff Enhancements for Border Patrol: The U.S. Customs and
Border Protection (CBP) Border Patrol has, in its continued effort
to increase the number of agents and support staff, hired 18,000
agents;

(2) Strong Border Barriers: Have installed at least 200 miles of
vehicle barriers, 370 miles of fencing, and 70 ground-based
radar and camera towers along the southern land border of the
United States, and have deployed 4 Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
and supporting systems;

(3) Catch and Return: The Department of Homeland Security is
detaining all removable aliens apprehended crossing the
southern border, except as specifically mandated by law or
humanitarian circumstances, and U.S. Immigration and Customs
Enforcement (ICE) has the resources to maintain this practice,

Look at these triggers. They will never fully be complied with and thus this bill is designed to never be enforced because they will never complete the triggers necessary to put the full weight of the bill into action. Exactly as they did in the last Fiasco with immigration reform.

Not later than 6 months after the date of the enactment of this
Act, the Secretary, in consultation with the heads of other appropriate
Federal agencies, shall submit to Congress a schedule for-

US-VISIT is part of a continuum of security measures that begins overseas and continues through a visitor’s arrival in and departure from the United States. It incorporates eligibility determinations made by both the Departments of Homeland Security and State.

US-Visit System.

(1) equipping all land border ports of entry of the United
States with the U.S.-Visitor and Immigrant Status
Indicator Technology (US-VISIT) system implemented
under section 110 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and
Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1365a);

(2) developing and deploying at such ports of entry the
exit component of the US-VISIT system; and

(3) making interoperable all immigration screening
systems operated by the Secretary.

As you can see there is no intention of ever checking documentation because this will not happen till 6 months after this bill is put into effect and it will NEVER be put into effect because the triggers are designed to NEVER be met. Thus no ID checks on current or incoming immigrants EVER.

This is a humongous deception by our congressmen on the American People. Period.

powerline workers? (Energy industry — Cheney?)

The whole sham that “America Wants Illegals Gone”

Most never have wanted to deport illegal aliens, except known criminals, etc., any more than they support forced emigration of Arabs by Israel from all of the Territories, or sometimes from within Israel proper and Israel’s future share of the Territories (euphemistically referred to by the word “transfer”). They need not use liberal or academic words to criticize such a thing here (or in the Territories), to cry that it is a post-World-War-II commonly defined violation of human rights; they simply don’t agree with it or believe it would require too much expense or trouble.

They’re more concerned about controlling and often reducing the inflow of current and future new immigrants, as well as changing the system from the 1960s-liberal “family reunification” basis to a pro-national-interest individual-evaluation basis, with a possible points system as is used by other nations, ending “birthright citizenship” and abuse of public services, things like that.

There is nothing wrong with what the majority wants.

right wing talk hate radio

Hate is overwhelmingly coming from the left, and has since 1980 (with earlier genesis in the 1960s); don’t abuse the word “hate” the way the Left so often does (to try to conceal what really is happening, here or in other circumstances?). Look at how you are wrongly describing those in favor of immigration reform and opposing the bill as too lenient.

“to provide a way for people who are in this country illegally to gain legal citizenship under certain conditions – wins broad and bipartisan support. Overall, 63% of the public – and nearly identical numbers of Republicans, Democrats and independents – favor such an approach if illegal immigrants “pass background checks, pay fines and have jobs.“

People not paying attention ‘think’ they are against the current legislation because of a obscene rants from a small minority of terrified bigots and right wing talk hate radio and it’s ditto-heads.

Just the word “Amnesty” swayed the Pew poll NINE POINTS (9%).

In dealing w/ illegal immigrants already here…

Provide a way to gain legal citizenship if they meet certain conditions. 63% Favor – 30 % Oppose.

Provide amnesty if they meet certain conditions. 54% Favor – 47 % Oppose.

The whole sham that “America Wants Illegals Gone” is nothing more than smoke and mirrors perpetrated by hateful, childish racists and bigots.

Immigration reform is a complicated problem that needs to be handled comprehensively. There are no quick fixes, and any overarching bill such as the one being bandied about now is no more than political posturing without solving any problems. It seems similar to “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” in that sense. It doesn’t solve the real issues, but likely creates a host of new ones.

Still, I’m amazed at the enmity it has caused, especially from those on the right (though plenty on the left are upset with it as well, the depth of feeling is just not the same, it seems to me.)

Those in Congress are caught between incurring the wrath of the voters and incurring the loss of support of their president , Karl Rove and the RNC. Even as a lame duck, that support must mean a lot, because why else would Republicans keep supporting Gonzales and Bush’s failing surge? Also there is probably unseen special interest support (ie corporate lobbyist’s PAC money) that is influencing the vote.

How else to explain the sudden discovery of backbones in our Congressmen, on an issue that there is almost no support for, and could very well cost more than a few their seats?

I hate to sound paranoid, but this whole exercise just doesn’t pass the smell test to me.

I am a Republican but I think that this has got to be about what is best for the country not a party.

So here is my bill.

Built a fence. Hire the guards.
National Id with amnesty for those who pass background checks.
Enforce the current immigration law.

This benefits the country and not any party.

End of argument.

The real question is how to the Democrats propose to pay for a massive increase in social welfare spending while promoting open borders.

Personally, I think it is too soon to tell.

If it is defeated, I think it will hurt the Republicans, both with Hispanics and by causing a rift in the party.

If it passes, I think it will also cause a rift. But the Democratic Party may or may not benefit, it depends on how it is spun by the media. Remember, when the mimimum wage was increased, AP gave credit to the Republicans.

I think if the anti-immigrant wing of the Republicans yell loud enough, it will benefit the Democratic party enough for them to take New Meixco, Nevada, Florida, and possibly even Arizona in 2008. If that happens, it will certainly be interesting times for the Republican party.