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	<title>Comments on: Is it time to end our support for the Iraqi security forces?</title>
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		<title>By: Jason Steck</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/comment-page-1/#comment-86277</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Steck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 02:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/foreign-affairs/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/#comment-86277</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;First of course, thereâ€™s the problem that these assumptions are made by the same people who said our entry into Iraq would be â€œa cakewalkâ€ and â€œgreeted as liberatorsâ€.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Critiques of an argument based solely on the alleged source are logically flawed.  Also, arguments about a post-withdrawal are being made by people other than the &quot;they will greet us as liberators&quot; set.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Most relevant to this post, the author Robert Dreyfuss points out that neither side has much in the way of heavy weapons or armor, and hence canâ€™t take a sectarian war deep into the otherâ€™s territory.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As the Bosnia and Kosovo experiences showed, heavy weaponry is not necessary for ethnic cleansing, mass murder, and other atrocities.  In Rwanda, the majority of the genocide was done with machetes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>First of course, thereâ€™s the problem that these assumptions are made by the same people who said our entry into Iraq would be â€œa cakewalkâ€ and â€œgreeted as liberatorsâ€.</p></blockquote>
<p>Critiques of an argument based solely on the alleged source are logically flawed.  Also, arguments about a post-withdrawal are being made by people other than the &#8220;they will greet us as liberators&#8221; set.</p>
<blockquote><p>Most relevant to this post, the author Robert Dreyfuss points out that neither side has much in the way of heavy weapons or armor, and hence canâ€™t take a sectarian war deep into the otherâ€™s territory.</p></blockquote>
<p>As the Bosnia and Kosovo experiences showed, heavy weaponry is not necessary for ethnic cleansing, mass murder, and other atrocities.  In Rwanda, the majority of the genocide was done with machetes.</p>
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		<title>By: Bones_708</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/comment-page-1/#comment-86276</link>
		<dc:creator>Bones_708</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 02:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/foreign-affairs/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/#comment-86276</guid>
		<description>The term Iraqi security forces is part of the problem. You cannot lump them altogether like that. The major issues have been with police/militia forces not military. Anyone who has said that Iraqi forces should &quot;step up&quot; and is contemplating &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; arming those same forces is absurd. The complaints also ignore basic realities of what is being attempted. To create police/militarises from scratch. Sure you can train a Sargent in a couple of years, but how long for a captain? or a general/chief of police? People in the army have been caught selling weapons here in the states, why is anyone surprised when it happens in Iraq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The term Iraqi security forces is part of the problem. You cannot lump them altogether like that. The major issues have been with police/militia forces not military. Anyone who has said that Iraqi forces should &#8220;step up&#8221; and is contemplating <strong>not</strong> arming those same forces is absurd. The complaints also ignore basic realities of what is being attempted. To create police/militarises from scratch. Sure you can train a Sargent in a couple of years, but how long for a captain? or a general/chief of police? People in the army have been caught selling weapons here in the states, why is anyone surprised when it happens in Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: Mikef</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/comment-page-1/#comment-86213</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/foreign-affairs/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/#comment-86213</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For my part, I tend to think that this question of disloyalty in the Iraqi security forces will be a problem that is diminished over time. As US troops withdraw, and Iraqis are forced to deal with the current security situation themselves, I think that there will be much less tolerance for sectarianism and violence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, a major problem with the Iraqi security forces is that they &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; loyal. Just not to the nation of Iraq. Some of the recent mosque bombings are believed to have been carried out, or aided by the very guards who were supposed to protect them.

Others are loyal to their tribe (like the Kurdish units) or their specific chain of command. This is why it&#039;s so hard for the American strategy to succeed. They have no real group in Iraq to support. They&#039;re all loyal to one or another of the fighting factions - and they want the Americans to help finish off their rivals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>For my part, I tend to think that this question of disloyalty in the Iraqi security forces will be a problem that is diminished over time. As US troops withdraw, and Iraqis are forced to deal with the current security situation themselves, I think that there will be much less tolerance for sectarianism and violence.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, a major problem with the Iraqi security forces is that they <em>are</em> loyal. Just not to the nation of Iraq. Some of the recent mosque bombings are believed to have been carried out, or aided by the very guards who were supposed to protect them.</p>
<p>Others are loyal to their tribe (like the Kurdish units) or their specific chain of command. This is why it&#8217;s so hard for the American strategy to succeed. They have no real group in Iraq to support. They&#8217;re all loyal to one or another of the fighting factions &#8211; and they want the Americans to help finish off their rivals.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/comment-page-1/#comment-86201</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/foreign-affairs/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/#comment-86201</guid>
		<description>The Washington Monthly &lt;a href=&quot;http://greendreams.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/iraq-apocalypse-not-2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ran an excellent article&lt;/a&gt;  challenging the assumptions of those who predict a bloodbath if American soldiers leave. First of course, there&#039;s the problem that these assumptions are made by the same people who said our entry into Iraq would be &quot;a cakewalk&quot; and &quot;greeted as liberators&quot;.

Most relevant to this post, the author Robert Dreyfuss points out that neither side has much in the way of heavy weapons or armor, and hence can&#039;t take a sectarian war deep into the other&#039;s territory. Dreyfuss warns that about the only thing that could change this dynamic is if the United States gives the Iraqi army the heavy weapons to escalate this battle. Your post underscores the need for caution in further feeding the civil war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Washington Monthly <a href="http://greendreams.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/iraq-apocalypse-not-2/" rel="nofollow">ran an excellent article</a>  challenging the assumptions of those who predict a bloodbath if American soldiers leave. First of course, there&#8217;s the problem that these assumptions are made by the same people who said our entry into Iraq would be &#8220;a cakewalk&#8221; and &#8220;greeted as liberators&#8221;.</p>
<p>Most relevant to this post, the author Robert Dreyfuss points out that neither side has much in the way of heavy weapons or armor, and hence can&#8217;t take a sectarian war deep into the other&#8217;s territory. Dreyfuss warns that about the only thing that could change this dynamic is if the United States gives the Iraqi army the heavy weapons to escalate this battle. Your post underscores the need for caution in further feeding the civil war.</p>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/comment-page-1/#comment-86196</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070617/wl_nm/iraq_maliki_dc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This goes beyond the formal security apparatus as well.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070617/wl_nm/iraq_maliki_dc" rel="nofollow">This goes beyond the formal security apparatus as well.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeb Koogler</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/comment-page-1/#comment-86190</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeb Koogler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/foreign-affairs/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/#comment-86190</guid>
		<description>You may be right, Jason. Perhaps I&#039;m being too optimistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may be right, Jason. Perhaps I&#8217;m being too optimistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Steck</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/comment-page-1/#comment-86187</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Steck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/foreign-affairs/13564/is-it-time-to-end-our-support-for-the-iraqi-security-forces/#comment-86187</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For my part, I tend to think that this question of disloyalty in the Iraqi security forces will be a problem that is diminished over time. As US troops withdraw, and Iraqis are forced to deal with the current security situation themselves, I think that there will be much less tolerance for sectarianism and violence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unfortunately, experience in Bosnia shows that this optimistic view of reduced sectarian violence in a post-withdrawal Iraq is not likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>For my part, I tend to think that this question of disloyalty in the Iraqi security forces will be a problem that is diminished over time. As US troops withdraw, and Iraqis are forced to deal with the current security situation themselves, I think that there will be much less tolerance for sectarianism and violence.</p></blockquote>
<p>Unfortunately, experience in Bosnia shows that this optimistic view of reduced sectarian violence in a post-withdrawal Iraq is not likely.</p>
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