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	<title>Comments on: Late to the Party</title>
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	<description>An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right</description>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85709</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85709</guid>
		<description>KR - RV is a frequent guest on Ed Schultz, and they actually carry on a civil talk/debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KR &#8211; RV is a frequent guest on Ed Schultz, and they actually carry on a civil talk/debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Somebody</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85640</link>
		<dc:creator>Somebody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 04:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85640</guid>
		<description>Top US congressional Democrats bluntly told President George W. Bush Wednesday that his Iraq troop &quot;surge&quot; policy was a failure.

Senate Majority leader Harry Reid and House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi challenged the president over Iraq by sending him a letter, ahead of a White House meeting later on Wednesday. 

The Democrats buried the Immigration bill because it was taking up the steam of the antiwar to continually pound over and over and over and over again what a failure the war on terror is.

Bush&#039;s failure.  He gave up trying to convince anyone of its right or wrongness.  He simply let the antiwar/Democrats/left define the argument.

So Reid buries the most important legislation in a generation so he can get back to bashing the war/bush and anything republican.

Its no wonder conservatives are jumping off the burning ship.  They forgot where the fire extinguishers are and how to use them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Top US congressional Democrats bluntly told President George W. Bush Wednesday that his Iraq troop &#8220;surge&#8221; policy was a failure.</p>
<p>Senate Majority leader Harry Reid and House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi challenged the president over Iraq by sending him a letter, ahead of a White House meeting later on Wednesday. </p>
<p>The Democrats buried the Immigration bill because it was taking up the steam of the antiwar to continually pound over and over and over and over again what a failure the war on terror is.</p>
<p>Bush&#8217;s failure.  He gave up trying to convince anyone of its right or wrongness.  He simply let the antiwar/Democrats/left define the argument.</p>
<p>So Reid buries the most important legislation in a generation so he can get back to bashing the war/bush and anything republican.</p>
<p>Its no wonder conservatives are jumping off the burning ship.  They forgot where the fire extinguishers are and how to use them.</p>
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		<title>By: kimrit</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85638</link>
		<dc:creator>kimrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85638</guid>
		<description>nick-After I read your comment,  I remembered that I did see the four conservatives on one of the cable channels, criticizing Bush for the problems at the Justice Dept.  You are right that they didn&#039;t wait.

 But, you are also right that only administration critics on the left seem to get any attention in the media.  This  has been really harmful because it sets up these issues as partisan, instead of as important safeguards of our democracy, which all Americans need to be  aware of.

My criticism of some conservatives who still support Bush remains, but we should give credit to those who have been speaking out all along, while getting little media coverage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nick-After I read your comment,  I remembered that I did see the four conservatives on one of the cable channels, criticizing Bush for the problems at the Justice Dept.  You are right that they didn&#8217;t wait.</p>
<p> But, you are also right that only administration critics on the left seem to get any attention in the media.  This  has been really harmful because it sets up these issues as partisan, instead of as important safeguards of our democracy, which all Americans need to be  aware of.</p>
<p>My criticism of some conservatives who still support Bush remains, but we should give credit to those who have been speaking out all along, while getting little media coverage.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Rivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85637</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Rivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85637</guid>
		<description>Once again, I&#039;m well ahead of the mainstream media on this story.  I wrote an &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-cjQ4r_Y_cqXPXpxyIWQePYrgXHbB?p=153&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; about the American Freedom Agenda over at my blog three months ago.

&lt;blockquote&gt;But why did it take 7 years to speak out? Thatâ€™s ridiculously long to wait.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It would be a mistake to argue that the American Freedom Agenda has waited &quot;7 years to speak out&quot; given that several of its members have been speaking out against the Bush administration&#039;s policies since Bush&#039;s first term in office.  Former Republican Congressman Bob Barr (who has subsequently left the Republican Party and joined the Libertarian Party) has been on cable news channels denouncing the Patriot Act and warrantless electronic surveillance since 2005, and Republican Congressman (and current presidential hopeful) Ron Paul has been criticizing the Bush Administration&#039;s record on civil liberties from the beginning.

Just because the mainstream media refuses to acknowledge conservative critics of the Bush Administration doesn&#039;t mean that they don&#039;t exist.  It seems to me that civil libertarians of all stripes (liberals, moderates, conservatives, and libertarians) should be working together rather than bickering over which group was the first to criticize Bush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, I&#8217;m well ahead of the mainstream media on this story.  I wrote an <a href="http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-cjQ4r_Y_cqXPXpxyIWQePYrgXHbB?p=153" rel="nofollow">article</a> about the American Freedom Agenda over at my blog three months ago.</p>
<blockquote><p>But why did it take 7 years to speak out? Thatâ€™s ridiculously long to wait.</p></blockquote>
<p>It would be a mistake to argue that the American Freedom Agenda has waited &#8220;7 years to speak out&#8221; given that several of its members have been speaking out against the Bush administration&#8217;s policies since Bush&#8217;s first term in office.  Former Republican Congressman Bob Barr (who has subsequently left the Republican Party and joined the Libertarian Party) has been on cable news channels denouncing the Patriot Act and warrantless electronic surveillance since 2005, and Republican Congressman (and current presidential hopeful) Ron Paul has been criticizing the Bush Administration&#8217;s record on civil liberties from the beginning.</p>
<p>Just because the mainstream media refuses to acknowledge conservative critics of the Bush Administration doesn&#8217;t mean that they don&#8217;t exist.  It seems to me that civil libertarians of all stripes (liberals, moderates, conservatives, and libertarians) should be working together rather than bickering over which group was the first to criticize Bush.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85625</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85625</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why not reach out to them &quot;

Yes, reaching out is always good.

There was a precedent set on this site for reaching out. It concerned progressives working to create a positve agenda.  The precedent consisted of pointing  out what has been wrong with progessives up to now.  The reaching out did not happen wihout an exacted price of criticism.

Think of this as the first step, then.  The reaching out will come later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why not reach out to them &#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, reaching out is always good.</p>
<p>There was a precedent set on this site for reaching out. It concerned progressives working to create a positve agenda.  The precedent consisted of pointing  out what has been wrong with progessives up to now.  The reaching out did not happen wihout an exacted price of criticism.</p>
<p>Think of this as the first step, then.  The reaching out will come later.</p>
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		<title>By: kimrit</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85613</link>
		<dc:creator>kimrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85613</guid>
		<description>Um, its called putting one&#039;s country ahead of one&#039;s party, remember? And what do any of these four conservatives have to fear from Bush? They aren&#039;t running for office.

The only thing that has enabled him to do all this in the first place is unquestioning support from people like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, its called putting one&#8217;s country ahead of one&#8217;s party, remember? And what do any of these four conservatives have to fear from Bush? They aren&#8217;t running for office.</p>
<p>The only thing that has enabled him to do all this in the first place is unquestioning support from people like this.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveA</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85610</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85610</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget fear.  going against W and crew was not exactly an easy choice to make even relativly recently.  Not saying that cowardness is a good thing, but lets be real.  People have lives, families, and so on and really don&#039;t want to see them messed with by the lossing of patisan attack dogs.  

I remember back close to 9/11, a student got himself in trouble with homeland security and almost no one would help him once they found out who was &#039;after&#039; him.  I did, but can&#039;t say I did not wonder what might happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget fear.  going against W and crew was not exactly an easy choice to make even relativly recently.  Not saying that cowardness is a good thing, but lets be real.  People have lives, families, and so on and really don&#8217;t want to see them messed with by the lossing of patisan attack dogs.  </p>
<p>I remember back close to 9/11, a student got himself in trouble with homeland security and almost no one would help him once they found out who was &#8216;after&#8217; him.  I did, but can&#8217;t say I did not wonder what might happen.</p>
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		<title>By: kimrit</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85604</link>
		<dc:creator>kimrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85604</guid>
		<description>Richard Viguerie support a Dem? That will be the day! Of course its better late than never, but they sat silent way too long, enabling Bush and Cheney.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Viguerie support a Dem? That will be the day! Of course its better late than never, but they sat silent way too long, enabling Bush and Cheney.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin H</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85602</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85602</guid>
		<description>kimrit, it could be isolation, pride, a feeling that they could do more good &#039;on the inside&#039; so to speak. I&#039;m sure it&#039;s also different for different people. It might have been too long, but dwelling on the past won&#039;t move us forward.

Also, there is a supper simple way to gauge their sincerity. Just ask them to back the candidate who fulfills their pledge the best, and explain why that candidate succeeds in their view. An honest attempt to answer that might lead them to back a Dem, and that would truely be a sign of honest reflection and &#039;waking up&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kimrit, it could be isolation, pride, a feeling that they could do more good &#8216;on the inside&#8217; so to speak. I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s also different for different people. It might have been too long, but dwelling on the past won&#8217;t move us forward.</p>
<p>Also, there is a supper simple way to gauge their sincerity. Just ask them to back the candidate who fulfills their pledge the best, and explain why that candidate succeeds in their view. An honest attempt to answer that might lead them to back a Dem, and that would truely be a sign of honest reflection and &#8216;waking up&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85592</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85592</guid>
		<description>Ticketsplitter beat me to it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ticketsplitter beat me to it <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: kimrit</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85589</link>
		<dc:creator>kimrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85589</guid>
		<description>But why did it take 7 years to speak out? That&#039;s ridiculously long to wait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But why did it take 7 years to speak out? That&#8217;s ridiculously long to wait.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Steck</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85576</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Steck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85576</guid>
		<description>Ticketsplitter has a great point.  If no one ever gains anything by changing their approach, no one will ever have an incentive to change their approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ticketsplitter has a great point.  If no one ever gains anything by changing their approach, no one will ever have an incentive to change their approach.</p>
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		<title>By: ticketsplitter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85570</link>
		<dc:creator>ticketsplitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85570</guid>
		<description>So what if they&#039;re late to the party?  At last some of these conservatives have come to their senses and have realized that the kind of government imposed on us the Bush administration has nothing to do with traditional conservative principles.  Why not reach out to them and look for other common ground that might move the country away from the politics of divsiveness?  If later they prove to be fair-weather friends, you can attack their motives then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what if they&#8217;re late to the party?  At last some of these conservatives have come to their senses and have realized that the kind of government imposed on us the Bush administration has nothing to do with traditional conservative principles.  Why not reach out to them and look for other common ground that might move the country away from the politics of divsiveness?  If later they prove to be fair-weather friends, you can attack their motives then.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13473/late-to-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-85559</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13473/late-to-the-party/#comment-85559</guid>
		<description>Agreed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.</p>
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