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	<title>Comments on: Palestinian Civil War Continues</title>
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		<title>By: jdledell</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85649</link>
		<dc:creator>jdledell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85649</guid>
		<description>Jim - Hamas&#039;s position on Israel is no different than Egypt, Syria, Jordan, the PLO have had in the past. In all cases once negotiations started, attitudes towards Israel shifted. None loved Israel, but they recognized it. The same will be true of Hamas. 

Hamas won an election to become the government of Palestine. Israel and the US never recognized their legitimacy or recognized their government. Both sides can keep up this mutual non recgnition or they can sit down and talk to see if peace is possible. 

My grandfather fought with the Irgun from 1946 to 1948 and I can assure you that the British considered the Irgun the same way Hamas is viewed today. Yet, they eventually sat down and worked out a transition of power and MUTUAL RECOGNITION.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim &#8211; Hamas&#8217;s position on Israel is no different than Egypt, Syria, Jordan, the PLO have had in the past. In all cases once negotiations started, attitudes towards Israel shifted. None loved Israel, but they recognized it. The same will be true of Hamas. </p>
<p>Hamas won an election to become the government of Palestine. Israel and the US never recognized their legitimacy or recognized their government. Both sides can keep up this mutual non recgnition or they can sit down and talk to see if peace is possible. </p>
<p>My grandfather fought with the Irgun from 1946 to 1948 and I can assure you that the British considered the Irgun the same way Hamas is viewed today. Yet, they eventually sat down and worked out a transition of power and MUTUAL RECOGNITION.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Satterfield</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85632</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Satterfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85632</guid>
		<description>How can Israel expect someone to honor whatever promises they might make in negotiations when that group refuses to recognize their right to exist? When the destruction of Israel is the core principle of an organization what basis is there for negotiation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can Israel expect someone to honor whatever promises they might make in negotiations when that group refuses to recognize their right to exist? When the destruction of Israel is the core principle of an organization what basis is there for negotiation?</p>
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		<title>By: jdledell</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85622</link>
		<dc:creator>jdledell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85622</guid>
		<description>&quot;There can be no â€œtangible peaceâ€ with the Palestinians as long as Hamas is in power.&quot;

Michael - You sure are confident about the future. Do you have any stock tips for me? For a 22 year old Dutchman who has NEVER been to the Levant and probabably has never met a Palestinian or an Israeli, I find your opinions on this matter ill-informed and insulting. Would you please list your qualifications to comment on such a complicated and sensitive matter!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There can be no â€œtangible peaceâ€ with the Palestinians as long as Hamas is in power.&#8221;</p>
<p>Michael &#8211; You sure are confident about the future. Do you have any stock tips for me? For a 22 year old Dutchman who has NEVER been to the Levant and probabably has never met a Palestinian or an Israeli, I find your opinions on this matter ill-informed and insulting. Would you please list your qualifications to comment on such a complicated and sensitive matter!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85578</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85578</guid>
		<description>jdledell:

Maybe these folks just really want to do the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Lady&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Church Lady&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; &quot;superior dance&quot;?  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jdledell:</p>
<p>Maybe these folks just really want to do the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Lady" rel="nofollow">Church Lady&#8217;s</a> &#8220;superior dance&#8221;?  <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael van der Galien</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85563</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der Galien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85563</guid>
		<description>There can be no &quot;tangible peace&quot; with the Palestinians as long as Hamas is in power.

Perhaps after this mess, palestinians will finally turn against Hamas. If they do, Israel, the West, the Palestinians and the Arab world can talk about peace in the region.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There can be no &#8220;tangible peace&#8221; with the Palestinians as long as Hamas is in power.</p>
<p>Perhaps after this mess, palestinians will finally turn against Hamas. If they do, Israel, the West, the Palestinians and the Arab world can talk about peace in the region.</p>
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		<title>By: jdledell</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85561</link>
		<dc:creator>jdledell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85561</guid>
		<description>The idea of talking with Hamas is so that they recognize Israel. The very act of negotiations assumes recognition. Obviously, any peace agreement enshrines recognition of Israel. What the Hell do you guys want - for Hamas and the Palestinians to grovel at Israel&#039;s feet? Do you want  a tangible peace or the intangible satisfaction of &quot;winning&quot;  and &quot;superiority&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of talking with Hamas is so that they recognize Israel. The very act of negotiations assumes recognition. Obviously, any peace agreement enshrines recognition of Israel. What the Hell do you guys want &#8211; for Hamas and the Palestinians to grovel at Israel&#8217;s feet? Do you want  a tangible peace or the intangible satisfaction of &#8220;winning&#8221;  and &#8220;superiority&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Holly in Cincinnati</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85554</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly in Cincinnati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85554</guid>
		<description>Hamas refuses to accept Israel&#039;s right to exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hamas refuses to accept Israel&#8217;s right to exist.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85543</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85543</guid>
		<description>It was said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If Israel really wants a peace deal then they have to talk with Hamas.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

???

The obligation is upon Hamas to cease terrorism and recognize Israel, obviously. (!!!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was said:</p>
<blockquote><p>If Israel really wants a peace deal then they have to talk with Hamas.</p></blockquote>
<p>???</p>
<p>The obligation is upon Hamas to cease terrorism and recognize Israel, obviously. (!!!)</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85519</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85519</guid>
		<description>News from Palestine/Israel is beginning to feel like watching a number of cars heading for an unavoidable collision.  Everyone knows the crash will be terrible.  Everyone stares in amazement and horror.  No one can stop it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>News from Palestine/Israel is beginning to feel like watching a number of cars heading for an unavoidable collision.  Everyone knows the crash will be terrible.  Everyone stares in amazement and horror.  No one can stop it.</p>
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		<title>By: jdledell</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-85512</link>
		<dc:creator>jdledell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/13462/palestinian-civil-war-continues/#comment-85512</guid>
		<description>Michael - This is a terrible and sad situation. It is beyond the finger pointing and blame making at this stage. If Gaza becomes are truly failed state( it is now on the verge) then the peace process (such as it is) will be in abeyance for another 5 years. 

Fatah has proven it&#039;s incompetence to govern. The corruption seems too ingrained and the boycott presents them with an impossible hill to climb. It now appears that Hamas is on the verge of completely taking over Gaza according to the latest news reports. Hamas still has the moral authority amoung Palestinians to govern. We&#039;ll see if they take up the challenge in Gaza. 

I honestly think Hamas represents Israel&#039;s best chance for a peace partner. I say this as a Jew who has many relatives living in Israel and the settlements and who loves Israel. Hamas has the same standing amoung Palestinians as Arafat once did and Hamas has a chance to impose law and order in the Palestinian areas. If Israel can get Hamas to agree to peace terms (no easy task) then I believe that such a peace deal could be enforced. 

If Israel really wants a peace deal then they have to talk with Hamas. No peace deal worth the printing is possible without Hamas&#039; agreement. Any thinking that Hamas will go away or be defeated is pure delusion. Most wars end when the two enemies start talking. We did it in Korea and Vietnam and if you look at history it&#039;s been done hundreds of times. The allure of an enemies unconditional surrender (Germany &amp; Japan) is simply not feasible in this situation. 

Israel, the US and the world should think about the following in plotting their policies. Neither Egypt or Jordan will annex the Palestinian territories - not tommorrow or next year or in 100 years. They know that the Palestinians will never submit to foreign control and they don&#039;t wish to be the new Israelis. If a two state solution is not found soon, Israel may witness the collapse of the PA and then find themselves in control of the care, feeding and education of millions of Palestinians. As the occupying power under International law, Palestinians are Israel&#039;s problem and one that cannot be jettisoned by unilateral withdrawal behind fences.

Israel has a tar baby on their hands and right now both they and the Palestinians are covered with it. One of the two parties has to take the initiative to get out of the tar pit before both sink into oblivion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael &#8211; This is a terrible and sad situation. It is beyond the finger pointing and blame making at this stage. If Gaza becomes are truly failed state( it is now on the verge) then the peace process (such as it is) will be in abeyance for another 5 years. </p>
<p>Fatah has proven it&#8217;s incompetence to govern. The corruption seems too ingrained and the boycott presents them with an impossible hill to climb. It now appears that Hamas is on the verge of completely taking over Gaza according to the latest news reports. Hamas still has the moral authority amoung Palestinians to govern. We&#8217;ll see if they take up the challenge in Gaza. </p>
<p>I honestly think Hamas represents Israel&#8217;s best chance for a peace partner. I say this as a Jew who has many relatives living in Israel and the settlements and who loves Israel. Hamas has the same standing amoung Palestinians as Arafat once did and Hamas has a chance to impose law and order in the Palestinian areas. If Israel can get Hamas to agree to peace terms (no easy task) then I believe that such a peace deal could be enforced. </p>
<p>If Israel really wants a peace deal then they have to talk with Hamas. No peace deal worth the printing is possible without Hamas&#8217; agreement. Any thinking that Hamas will go away or be defeated is pure delusion. Most wars end when the two enemies start talking. We did it in Korea and Vietnam and if you look at history it&#8217;s been done hundreds of times. The allure of an enemies unconditional surrender (Germany &#038; Japan) is simply not feasible in this situation. </p>
<p>Israel, the US and the world should think about the following in plotting their policies. Neither Egypt or Jordan will annex the Palestinian territories &#8211; not tommorrow or next year or in 100 years. They know that the Palestinians will never submit to foreign control and they don&#8217;t wish to be the new Israelis. If a two state solution is not found soon, Israel may witness the collapse of the PA and then find themselves in control of the care, feeding and education of millions of Palestinians. As the occupying power under International law, Palestinians are Israel&#8217;s problem and one that cannot be jettisoned by unilateral withdrawal behind fences.</p>
<p>Israel has a tar baby on their hands and right now both they and the Palestinians are covered with it. One of the two parties has to take the initiative to get out of the tar pit before both sink into oblivion.</p>
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