Comments on: There’s A Hole In The Bed Where Fred Thompson Is Yet to Lie http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:23:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84548 Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:07:27 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84548 Mike P. t/y for taking the time. dr.e. Mike P. t/y for taking the time.
dr.e.

]]> By: Mike P. http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84539 Mike P. Thu, 07 Jun 2007 05:05:27 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84539 "The sociopath often gets far because they also most often have the trait of, not sincere compliments that are truly meant, but a form of invasive flattery. Two different things." Short but very effective way to describe that difference, dr. e! “The sociopath often gets far because they also most often have the trait of, not sincere compliments that are truly meant, but a form of invasive flattery. Two different things.”

Short but very effective way to describe that difference, dr. e!

]]> By: Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84469 Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés Wed, 06 Jun 2007 20:32:28 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84469 Mike P. I'm going to file that away for future... finishing out Gore's term. Good memory. pacatrue Your grandfather sounds like a man we all miss even though we didnt know him. How lucky you are to have had him. kimrit, excellent description of hale-fellow-well-met syndrome. Having been a shrink in prisons, at the VAs, disaster sites and elsewhere for more decades than I'd like to mention...lol... (I dislike 'lol' ... I am more often wanting to write, 'ghmph or H!Sw,' meaning 'going harumph,' or 'Hah! Sez who?, but I'm afraid people won't know what I mean, so lol all over the place, I guess... ) ...my point about your insight is that charm and character disorder are twinned in those who are without conscience. The sociopath often gets far because they also most often have the trait of, not sincere compliments that are truly meant, but a form of invasive flattery. Two different things. dr.e Mike P. I’m going to file that away for future… finishing out Gore’s term. Good memory.

pacatrue Your grandfather sounds like a man we all miss even though we didnt know him. How lucky you are to have had him.

kimrit, excellent description of hale-fellow-well-met syndrome. Having been a shrink in prisons, at the VAs, disaster sites and elsewhere for more decades than I’d like to mention…lol… (I dislike ‘lol’ … I am more often wanting to write, ‘ghmph or H!Sw,’ meaning ‘going harumph,’ or ‘Hah! Sez who?, but I’m afraid people won’t know what I mean, so lol all over the place, I guess… )

…my point about your insight is that charm and character disorder are twinned in those who are without conscience. The sociopath often gets far because they also most often have the trait of, not sincere compliments that are truly meant, but a form of invasive flattery. Two different things.

dr.e

]]> By: pacatrue http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84444 pacatrue Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:41:44 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84444 Good point, Mike P. I misunderstood you and assumed federal government when you said that. Also, thanks for the bit about Thompson replacing Gore. I had forgotten his first term was not full. Good point, Mike P. I misunderstood you and assumed federal government when you said that. Also, thanks for the bit about Thompson replacing Gore. I had forgotten his first term was not full.

]]> By: Mike P. http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84413 Mike P. Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:37:54 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84413 A quick hit as I'm on my way out the door, but I double checked my note above about Obama being in gov't longer than Thompson - Thompson served 8 years in the Senate. Two years finishing out Gore's term, and one full term of his own. Obama served 8 years in the Illinois Senate, plus the 2 1/2 in the US senate. A quick hit as I’m on my way out the door, but I double checked my note above about Obama being in gov’t longer than Thompson – Thompson served 8 years in the Senate. Two years finishing out Gore’s term, and one full term of his own. Obama served 8 years in the Illinois Senate, plus the 2 1/2 in the US senate.

]]> By: kimrit http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84394 kimrit Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:48:11 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84394 BTW- I agree about the father thing. Thompson makes people comfortable that everything will come out ok. W won both of his elections (well won is debatable) but many voted for him because he was a hale-fellow-well-met type who would slap you on the back after you made a touchdown or hit one to second base. Unlike Kerry or Gore, you could imagine having a beer with him. With the GOP- the base wants someone with Conservative values that people feel comfortable having a conversation with, but who also would take responsibility if things went wrong. They didn't get that with Bush 43, and don't get all 3 of these with the other front-runners. BTW- I agree about the father thing. Thompson makes people comfortable that everything will come out ok.

W won both of his elections (well won is debatable) but many voted for him because he was a hale-fellow-well-met type who would slap you on the back after you made a touchdown or hit one to second base. Unlike Kerry or Gore, you could imagine having a beer with him.

With the GOP- the base wants someone with Conservative values that people feel comfortable having a conversation with, but who also would take responsibility if things went wrong. They didn’t get that with Bush 43, and don’t get all 3 of these with the other front-runners.

]]> By: kimrit http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84393 kimrit Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:40:49 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84393 Dr. e- Crossfire was cancelled due to low ratings. I don't think it had anything to do with Novak being an overly partisan (he is) Republican or giving inaccurate information (which he does in his columns)-because the show had 4 partisans on it -2 from each party. I used to watch it- but it really became Cross shout! After a while you really couldn't understand what anyone was saying because they shouted each other down so much, lol. Dr. e- Crossfire was cancelled due to low ratings. I don’t think it had anything to do with Novak being an overly partisan (he is) Republican or giving inaccurate information (which he does in his columns)-because the show had 4 partisans on it -2 from each party.

I used to watch it- but it really became Cross shout! After a while you really couldn’t understand what anyone was saying because they shouted each other down so much, lol.

]]> By: pacatrue http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84388 pacatrue Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:08:20 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84388 I agree with you, dr. e, on the Thompson-as-father thing. He reminds me very much of one of my grandfathers, and he probably does the same for many. My grandfather was a great guy; spent his life putting young men back together -- in WWII in Europe, on the football field later, homesick sailors in the port of Houston -- as a doctor, and it certainly would be comforting to have my papa as President. Of course, Fred Thompson only looks like my grandfather, and I know this, but, as you say, the notion, even subconsciously probably has its appeal. As for wanting or not wanting a mother, it's hard to say. Clinton certainly does not come across particularly maternally, but then neither do most of the male candidates, other than Thompson, come across as paternal. There was a great fondness for Barbara Bush for a while, though, built largely on how she reminded so many people of their grandmothers. I agree with you, dr. e, on the Thompson-as-father thing. He reminds me very much of one of my grandfathers, and he probably does the same for many. My grandfather was a great guy; spent his life putting young men back together — in WWII in Europe, on the football field later, homesick sailors in the port of Houston — as a doctor, and it certainly would be comforting to have my papa as President. Of course, Fred Thompson only looks like my grandfather, and I know this, but, as you say, the notion, even subconsciously probably has its appeal. As for wanting or not wanting a mother, it’s hard to say. Clinton certainly does not come across particularly maternally, but then neither do most of the male candidates, other than Thompson, come across as paternal. There was a great fondness for Barbara Bush for a while, though, built largely on how she reminded so many people of their grandmothers.

]]> By: Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84387 Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:37:49 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84387 pacatrue between you and Mike P you guys have managed campaigns, right? Both your abilities to see 'behind' matters and as importantly to wonder and ask questions ... those are gifts. I have way more questions that I have intelligence to find answers, but from a pschological point of view, our nation has a significant portion of people who seem to want a father. I am not at all sure, they want a mother. In some of the inner cirlces I have an ear to, many are holding their fire for much much later in the game. I think quite a few will come out roaring their significant supports... later. After Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope, I think nothing could surpise me again... but lol, I find myself still being surprised. I hope that is because I am still learning. I wonder how 'Hollywood' will see Fred T. I wonder if say, Mel Gibson will support him ( cannot yet get wordpress to put my nickname back to dr. e. on my comments. Please everyone, forgive it looking so formally formal, I'm still learning this *(w64#$#^ thing.) dr.e pacatrue between you and Mike P you guys have managed campaigns, right? Both your abilities to see ‘behind’ matters and as importantly to wonder and ask questions … those are gifts. I have way more questions that I have intelligence to find answers, but from a pschological point of view, our nation has a significant portion of people who seem to want a father. I am not at all sure, they want a mother. In some of the inner cirlces I have an ear to, many are holding their fire for much much later in the game. I think quite a few will come out roaring their significant supports… later. After Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope, I think nothing could surpise me again… but lol, I find myself still being surprised. I hope that is because I am still learning. I wonder how ‘Hollywood’ will see Fred T. I wonder if say, Mel Gibson will support him ( cannot yet get wordpress to put my nickname back to dr. e. on my comments. Please everyone, forgive it looking so formally formal, I’m still learning this *(w64#$#^ thing.)
dr.e

]]> By: pacatrue http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84385 pacatrue Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:01:21 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84385 Mike P, he did 12 years in the Senate plus some stints as a congressional staff member in various capacities. Certainly longer than Obama who is on... year 3, is it? I might vote for Obama, while I won't for Thompson regardless, but the point is worth making. I do find the number of posts/comments about Thompson and their vehemence (not this post in particular; it's a TMV-general observation) intriguing. I don't really get why, but I have to guess that many non-conservatives either fear this guy or he truly has the charisma that people deny because we can't stop talking about him. I just did a quick search on "Fred Thompson" and "Giuliani" on the blog and about 18 posts came back that were focused on Thompson in the last month with 12 for Giuliani. I'm not even going to bother searching on Tancredo, T. Thompson, and such. I know this is because F. Thompson is the new guy, but it really does seem like people want to beat this particular Republican candidate down immediately. I would get this if it was Newt or someone with a long history of policies and speeches to oppose, but Thompson brings no such record. Three months ago would people have even thought of the name Fred Thompson as a leader of the Republican Party? It's just not like we've all been focused on him with adoration or hatred - until about mid-April. As I've said before on here, I count myself as liberal and there's pretty much no chance Thompson would ever get my vote, but it seems that, for many, Thompson is the guy they need to start beating back immediately and hard. One method of this seems to be by beefing up his acting credentials. He's hide a few minor roles in popular movies or TV shows as a character actor; he's not a household name due to his long and stunning Hollywood career (unless you are going to tell me what you remember best from Die Hard were the air control tower scenes). But by pretending that we know and love him as an actor, we can then pretend that the only reason he is a popular candidate is for acting; instead of experience, or, more likely, charisma and communication skills (which I think are also some of Obama's best qualities.) Anyway, my best intuition for why Thompson is getting such treatment is because people think he has a shot to win. Mike P, he did 12 years in the Senate plus some stints as a congressional staff member in various capacities. Certainly longer than Obama who is on… year 3, is it? I might vote for Obama, while I won’t for Thompson regardless, but the point is worth making.

I do find the number of posts/comments about Thompson and their vehemence (not this post in particular; it’s a TMV-general observation) intriguing. I don’t really get why, but I have to guess that many non-conservatives either fear this guy or he truly has the charisma that people deny because we can’t stop talking about him.

I just did a quick search on “Fred Thompson” and “Giuliani” on the blog and about 18 posts came back that were focused on Thompson in the last month with 12 for Giuliani. I’m not even going to bother searching on Tancredo, T. Thompson, and such. I know this is because F. Thompson is the new guy, but it really does seem like people want to beat this particular Republican candidate down immediately. I would get this if it was Newt or someone with a long history of policies and speeches to oppose, but Thompson brings no such record. Three months ago would people have even thought of the name Fred Thompson as a leader of the Republican Party? It’s just not like we’ve all been focused on him with adoration or hatred – until about mid-April.

As I’ve said before on here, I count myself as liberal and there’s pretty much no chance Thompson would ever get my vote, but it seems that, for many, Thompson is the guy they need to start beating back immediately and hard. One method of this seems to be by beefing up his acting credentials. He’s hide a few minor roles in popular movies or TV shows as a character actor; he’s not a household name due to his long and stunning Hollywood career (unless you are going to tell me what you remember best from Die Hard were the air control tower scenes). But by pretending that we know and love him as an actor, we can then pretend that the only reason he is a popular candidate is for acting; instead of experience, or, more likely, charisma and communication skills (which I think are also some of Obama’s best qualities.) Anyway, my best intuition for why Thompson is getting such treatment is because people think he has a shot to win.

]]> By: Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84383 Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés Wed, 06 Jun 2007 07:26:17 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84383 Right now, winghunter, I am looking for his draft record. That'll tell a certain amount. dr.e. Right now, winghunter, I am looking for his draft record. That’ll tell a certain amount.
dr.e.

]]> By: Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84382 Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés Wed, 06 Jun 2007 07:20:04 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84382 Mike P: interesting points. The irony of disliking things "Hollywood." and not entering the debate mano a mano from the beginning. There's a saying in my old country family that how a person enters the house is how they act while in the house... If we follow your theory's trajectory, that would infer he would be 'cajones appearing,' but not necessarily 'cajones on the line, e.g., confronting issues til they were way down the line. I note too Mike P, that he is my age, and would likely have been drafted for Nam, but I dont find any info about him being in service. Seems like a big guy like him would have been valuable as a soldier maybe. dr.e. Mike P: interesting points. The irony of disliking things “Hollywood.” and not entering the debate mano a mano from the beginning. There’s a saying in my old country family that how a person enters the house is how they act while in the house… If we follow your theory’s trajectory, that would infer he would be ‘cajones appearing,’ but not necessarily ‘cajones on the line, e.g., confronting issues til they were way down the line. I note too Mike P, that he is my age, and would likely have been drafted for Nam, but I dont find any info about him being in service. Seems like a big guy like him would have been valuable as a soldier maybe.
dr.e.

]]> By: Winghunter http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84381 Winghunter Wed, 06 Jun 2007 07:16:23 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84381 How interesting; height, tactics, acting and hypothesising on whether he's a mere chameleon or exactly as advertised, the 'real deal...yet, not the smallest insight into the man himself. Not the smallest effort of reach, let alone grasp, of why Fred generates the enthusiasm from so many who took a reasonable and involved look. Several adjectives come to mind but,... How interesting; height, tactics, acting and hypothesising on whether he’s a mere chameleon or exactly as advertised, the ‘real deal…yet, not the smallest insight into the man himself. Not the smallest effort of reach, let alone grasp, of why Fred generates the enthusiasm from so many who took a reasonable and involved look. Several adjectives come to mind but,…

]]> By: Mike P. http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84378 Mike P. Wed, 06 Jun 2007 05:52:16 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84378 I can only imagine the cognitive dissonance. Republicans (alright, I'll call 'em conservatives) supposedly hate Hollywood "elites." They spend lots of money and convention time deriding their "influence." Yet they long for another actor to replace Ronald "Bonzo" Reagan as their TV daddy. Or maybe another Ahnold could help? This guy is the very definition of empty suit. The poor buggers have been reduced to projecting their hopes and dreams on a guy who has little to say about policy beyond standard talking points, was not known as a particularly dedicated public servant when he was in office, and has less time in government than the reputedly "inexperienced" Barack Obama. But gosh, he reads lines written by someone else well enough on Law and Order! The truly sad thing is, it worked for Reagan. And though this empty suit doesn't even have the cajones to get on the stage and debate his rivals (Live TV - it's a bitch), it could work for him too. I can only imagine the cognitive dissonance. Republicans (alright, I’ll call ‘em conservatives) supposedly hate Hollywood “elites.” They spend lots of money and convention time deriding their “influence.” Yet they long for another actor to replace Ronald “Bonzo” Reagan as their TV daddy. Or maybe another Ahnold could help?

This guy is the very definition of empty suit. The poor buggers have been reduced to projecting their hopes and dreams on a guy who has little to say about policy beyond standard talking points, was not known as a particularly dedicated public servant when he was in office, and has less time in government than the reputedly “inexperienced” Barack Obama.

But gosh, he reads lines written by someone else well enough on Law and Order!

The truly sad thing is, it worked for Reagan. And though this empty suit doesn’t even have the cajones to get on the stage and debate his rivals (Live TV – it’s a bitch), it could work for him too.

]]> By: Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84376 Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés Wed, 06 Jun 2007 04:43:42 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84376 kimrit, I wonder how long the days are on a TV series set. Also, good point, a lot of people wonder why Mr. Novak lost his show on TV. Do you know? kimrit, I wonder how long the days are on a TV series set. Also, good point, a lot of people wonder why Mr. Novak lost his show on TV. Do you know?

]]> By: kimrit http://themoderatevoice.com/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-84372 kimrit Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:50:41 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/2008-elections/13283/theres-a-hole-in-the-bed-where-fred-thompson-is-yet-to-lie/#comment-84372 Bob Novak says that Fred Thompson learned not to start his campaign too early from Barack Obama who may have damaged himself by doing so????? Huh? Obama just caught up with the frontrunner in the polls! Thompson left Washington because he didn't like the long days at the Senate, which is also probably why he is starting late. He knows that he doesn't have the recognition problem that other candidates would have getting in this late. In any case, I stopped believing anything Novak said since he outed Valerie Plame in his column - sent a copy prepublication to Karl Rove, and then later insisted Libby was being railroaded. Bob Novak says that Fred Thompson learned not to start his campaign too early from Barack Obama who may have damaged himself by doing so????? Huh? Obama just caught up with the frontrunner in the polls! Thompson left Washington because he didn’t like the long days at the Senate, which is also probably why he is starting late. He knows that he doesn’t have the recognition problem that other candidates would have getting in this late.

In any case, I stopped believing anything Novak said since he outed Valerie Plame in his column – sent a copy prepublication to Karl Rove, and then later insisted Libby was being railroaded.

]]>