University Lecturers Vote to Boycott Israel
O no, Universities are definitely not “left”:
University lecturers threatened yesterday to provoke international condemnation by forcing their union into a year-long debate over boycotting work with Israeli universities.
Delegates at the first conference of the new University and College Union in Bournemouth voted by 158 to 99 for “a comprehensive and consistent boycott” of all Israeli academic institutions, as called for by Palestinian trade unions in response to Israel’s “40-year occupation” of Palestinian land.
The union’s leadership must now circulate calls from Palestinians for a boycott of Israeli universities to all branches throughout the country.
Disgusting, annoying, hypocritical little socialist anti-Semites.
More:
Tom Hickey, a Brighton University academic and union executive member, who led the move, said: “There will be adverse effects on individuals, but this is not targeting individuals or trying to break contacts with them.” The vote reflected “the deep concern people have”.
A boycott might involve refusing to work with journals published by Israeli companies or collaborate on research contracts with Israeli academics.
The deep concern people have? How about expressing concern over the fact that Palestinians voted for an organization, pardon me, party, whose charter says that Israel should be destroyed?
121 Responses to “University Lecturers Vote to Boycott Israel”
Jason Steck,
Who knew that cluster bombs were considered precision weapons?
Michael – Back Off – You are abusing your priviledge as a leader and editor of this site. Calling people anti-semites because you don’t agree with them
is ridiculous. You are not Jewish so stick with the things you know and understand. My Jewish grandfather escaped nazi occupied France in 1944 and I grew up listening to his stories about REAL ANTI-SEMETISM!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your unfounded accusations are as bad as anti-semetism. I wrote similar things as the posters you called anti-semites. I defy you to call me. a practicing Jew, an anti-semite!!!!!!!
Well said Jason.
Chris: your condemnation of Israel is so irrational that there is no other possilbility.
And wait, doesn’t Ahmadinejad also says that he just ‘hates’ the Israeli government / the “zionist regime”?
“Anti-Arab” – nice try, that does not work very well with me though.
Michael,
Your ranting about imaginary “anti-Semites” and refusal to reply to points being posed by others does nothing but show how thin skinned you are on this topic… It’s not very becoming.
Chris,
Cluster bombs are not used in most Israeli operations. Their use is not a typical example. Hamas and Hezbollah’s targeting of civilians is typical and, indeed, overwhelmingly more common. There are literally thousands more such incidents then there are incidents of Israeli cluster bomb usage.
There is also a great deal of evidence that some of the casualty figures in Lebanon as a result of Israeli attacks were exaggerated by attempts to “stage” the scene by Hezbollah operatives. This happens ON TOP of the fact (that you continue to avoid responding to while you cherry-pick evidence) that Israel only attacks civilian areas AFTER its enemies have CHOSEN to embed themselves among civilians so that they can create a “win-win” situation where Israel has to choose between just absorbing attacks with no response or responding and getting condemned.
In short, Chris, I think you and others like the boycotters are being played. I won’t call you an “anti-Semite” because the question of whether or not you are being played is something that only you can know for sure. But I do feel quite secure in my comparative assessment of the situation. Israel is not flawless by any stretch, but it is far, far, FAR better than a group openly supporting genocide.
Please replace last paragraph with this edit:
In short, Chris, I think you and others like the boycotters are being played. I won’t call you an “anti-Semite†because the question of whether or not you are being willingly played is something that only you can know for sure. But I do feel quite secure in my comparative assessment of the situation. Israel is not flawless by any stretch, but it is far, far, FAR better than a group openly supporting genocide.
JDLedell: Chris defends Hamas et al., he excuses their terrorism and blames Israel.
Do you believe that it is all Israel’s fault and that Israel deserves the attacks?
“You too?” as someone famous once asked.
And I have been told about this as well, because my country was occupied by the Nazis. I am not abusing my privilidge, I am simply calling an anti-semite out for being anti-semitic. And if you say that you often say the same things anti-Semites say, well, I’d suggest you think about that for a while.
I am less forgiving. I do believe that people like Chris are anti-Semites.
Stupid or anti-Semitic, tough choice huh Chris?
Thanks J.G. Will remember that.
Jason,
Unlike Michael, at least you’re actually engaging in a debate about the subject. I appreciate it, even if we don’t agree.
Maybe we can both agree that there has been enough evil visited on all sides by all sides.
I repeat:
Michael “Anti-Arab†van der Galien,
What have I said that’s anti-Jewish and not anti-Israeli government?
Here’s a link to the B’tselem – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied TerritoriesStatistics Page
Maybe everyone ought to spend a little time on research over there… while cooling off.
Thanks for the link Steve. Even if the statistics are anti-Semitic
You either do not read my comments or wilfully misinterprete them. I already explained why I think you are an anti-Semite. Your condemnation of Israel is so thoroughly irrational… etc.
So wait, Israel is responsible for the fact that Palestinian terrorists hide behind civilians (who support them)?
Michael,
It would be suicide for them to create a standing army and military bases to operate out of. They would be bombed immediately.
Hamas and Hezbollah fit more closely the definition of a militia.
Michael,
Check out this Salon article about the subject: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/
Or of a “Terrorist organization”.
condemning Israel for its human rights violations and its terrorizing of the Palestinian people is not irrational, nor is it anti-semitic.
The Palestinian peoples support for those who use terrorism as a tactic against occupying countries isn’t peculiar to their own people. As a parallel, would you condemn the support given by civilians to those who participated in guerrilla movements against German occupation during WWII?
In the end the tactics used by both Israel and the Palestinians are basically the same … their target is to terrorize the others civilian population. Of course it isn’t working, it just stirs the hatred on both sides.
Damn this post went to hell VERY quick…*smh*
“And if you say that you often say the same things anti-Semites say, well, I’d suggest you think about that for a while.”
Michael – This is a cheap shot. To insinuate I am an anti-semite is out of bounds. To my Jewish ears being called an anti-semite is the same as if you had called me the most vile name you could think of. That is DISGUSTING BEHAVIOR for an editor.
Are you actually comparing the Israelites to Nazis?
Did you read the comment in which one person actually compares Israel to Nazi Germany?
You say you could write what these people write?
And no, I am not saying you are an anti-Semite. I am saying that you should think a bit about what some of the people you defend actually say.
Michael,
No, I’m not. I’m comparing Israeli occupation of Palestine to any occupation of one people by another people. I could use the British occupation of Ireland, India, and parts of Africa as an example. I could use US and French occupation of Vietnam as an example. I just chose that example because I figured for you it would have the most relevance.
It is a disgusting, utterly disgusting comparison.
Those who oppose Israel fall into one of three categories:
1) Ignorant (uninformed or misinformed and or lazy to become properly informed)
2) Stupid
3) Anti-Semitic Bigots
I prefer to believe that most critics of Israel fall into the “Ignorant” category.
Please go educate yourselves.
Holly,
It’s nice to see that your authoritarian streak is alive and well.
How is it disgusting, because you are unable to empathize with both sides of a conflict? Are you unable to see that the Palestinian people are reacting the same way to Israeli occupation as Europe did to Germany? I think you have to put aside the crimes committed by Nazi Germany, everything having to do with the Holocaust, and realize that the majority of the people occupied by German forces didn’t care about these crimes at the time, likely didn’t even know about them. They fought, and civilians protected them, because they were being occupied by a foreign power. This same reaction occurs throughout history. Look at Spain when Napoleon butted in and put his brother on the throne. I could go on with my examples, it is all the same and it is relevant.
Holly, we don’t oppose Israel. We criticize their tactics and their human rights abuses. We take into account that they are a nation, people just like anyone else. They don’t get a pass because they just happen to be Jewish and their people have gone through a lot of abuse and discrimination through the centuries.
Ashen Shard, I could not have said it better myself.
I’d just like to say, that as a graduate student in an American University, I have never heard of this group until now. They can’t be that main stream, at least not in the rational sciences.
I think Ashen’s poorly worded WWII comment basically brings up some of the issues Jason does in his post “What is al-Qaeda?” Are we to condemn any use of ‘terrorism’: guerrilla warfare, or intentionally targeting civilians (the second of which both sides seem guilty of in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict) or do we allow those tactics when they advance particular goals, such as defense against Nazism. I think if one take the later stance, they are in danger of sliding into moral stance based on a clash of cultures, not clearly defined, objective stances on right and wrong.
Who put people against the wall if they didn’t agree with the government, who starved the people, who took millions away from their homes, to die in camps or to work in factories, who invaded and occupied sovereign nations, who… etc.
Again, it is a disgusting comparison and one I, as a Dutchman, find moral reprehensible.
There are two kinds of people:
1) People who think there are two kinds of people; and,
2) People who don’t.
Holly,
Your list of ‘Those who oppose Israel’ shows ignorance of a different kind… willful ignorance.
This thread is not about supporting or opposing Israel, it’s about the tactics and human rights abuses Israel employs in theiur dealings with Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
For you or Michael to imply that everyone concerned about Israel’s actions is an ‘anti-Semite’ only show how closed minded and ignorant you, not we, are.
I read you posts… you are not a stupid, person, so I can only assume you are being malicious intentionally.
People seem to forget why Israel has “occupied” Palestinian land – it’s because the Palestinians along with Arab Armies have engaged in three wars of aggression in attempts to destroy Israel and commit genocide. The Arabs/Palestinians lost those wars and all but Egypt have refused to make peace. Israel won the wars and are it seems they are simply expected to return to the previous status quo. The Clinton deal was a tremendous opportunity for both sides – a great compromise that would have given the Palestinians 90% of what they wanted plus billions in aid from the US, yet Arafat rejected it.
The sad situation with the Palestinians is that Israel’s enemies in Syria, Jordan and Lebanon continue to use them as pawns. Palestinians have lived in Syria and Lebanon for 50 years, yet they and several generations of their offspring are denied any semblance of equality or representation to say nothing of citizenship. Is it any wonder that Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon – camps that have been around for DECADES, are now a hotbed of insurgent activity? The fact is that the Arab states have screwed the Palestinians just as much or more than Israel has.
It is not as long as one recognizes that Fatah and Hamas are organizations that have openly advocated the killing of civilians, have carried out such attacks, and in the case of Hamas, advocates the destruction of the Israeli state and genocide against the Jews that live there.
When people claim that the intentional murder of civilians is justified in response to the complex and long-standing dispute between Arabs, Palestinians and Israel, then what other conclusion is there? Israel is certainly not above criticism, but as Jason cogent argues, intent matters. If Israel had the same animosity and intent as Hamas, Israel would have run the Palestinians into the sea long ago.
You’re right Michael… Israel is only guilty of 3 out of 5 of things you listed.
Chris: sure, go ahead. Compare Israel to Nazi Germany, go ahead.
Michael,
I do not mean to dismiss or downplay the crimes of the Nazi’s. My comparison is that of an occupied people only. The German government was not the government of the Netherlands, or any of the other nations it occupied. Same as the Israeli government is not the government of the Palestinians whom they occupy. Yet both saw fit to enforce that occupation, and as occupiers see fit to enforce their laws upon them. In essence, the Israeli military sees those Palestinian civilians who support militants, those who the Palestinians see as freedom fighters, the same as the German military saw those civilians in occupied Europe who supported those who fought against the occupying forces and were perceived by those civilians as freedom fighters.
If you don’t like that comparison, then please use an example of another occupation. Palestinians view the militants who fight against Israel as freedom fighters, and no matter what crimes they commit, how ugly their tactics, this must be understood as a struggle between an occupying power and those being occupied.
I’m using your criteria!
Who invaded whom? Israel did not invade Palestine in a war of aggression and genocide, so the example is completely bogus.
The allies occupied Germany and Japan after WWII. Were the few that resisted such “occupation” justified in doing so? According to your argument, they were. The fact is that the occupation came about as a result of a war of aggression against Israel. It’s amazing that you cannot seem to discern the tremendous difference that makes between the two situations.
[...] interaction with Israelis. The general issue of Israel versus Palestinians is being debated on a different thread on this site, but my focus here is a more narrow question: Is it appropriate for a union of teachers to censor [...]
Entropy,
No matter the pretext, Israel’s occupation of Palestine is in violation of international law. It has very few parallels with the allied occupation of Germany and Japan.
The allies were mostly concerned with getting Germany and Japan back on their feet so they could become bulwarks against the growing Soviet threat.
The Israelis, on the other hand, have done nothing to improve the lives of the Palestinians while they systematically steal their lands.
[...] on others like you received yourself for karmic reprisal, because when you suffer greatly, why bother learning from it? Because otherwise, you are entitled to a life of guilt-free mistreatment of anyone who gets in the [...]
Wow, what a complete rewriting of history. The allies (which included the Soviets) occupied Germany because they had engaged in two wars of aggression against their neighbors. They were occupied with the intent to keep that from ever happening again. West Germany was reconstructed and allowed to have its own government well after the onset of the Cold War. The allies brutally repressed remaining German resistance.
Israel could have done the same thing – like the allies, they were invaded in wars of aggression on multiple occasions by its neighbors. The comparison of the Nazi occupation is therefore completely disingenuous. Maybe in Chris World all occupations are created equal – in the real world they are not.
In any event, you still excuse and therefore legitimize the strategies and policies of Hamas as valid and legitimate against “the occupation.” Perhaps it’s just me, but I don’t think a strategy who’s goal is to kill civilians to compel an enemy to your bidding is ever justified. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what Hamas and, to a lesser extent, Fatah are all about. Their strategy is to keep murdering civilians until the Israeli’s capitulate.
In contrast, Israel could, should it desire, completely depopulate the occupied territories and could easily engage in a campaign of genocide similar to what it’s adversaries desire. But they don’t. If Hamas had a military capability equal to Israel’s do you really think they would act with the restraint Israel has? Of course not – it would be a modern pogrom with no quarter given.
Entropy,
I think the point he was making, even if they are justified in occupying that territory they are not taking the actions the same as we did. Sure, crush the militants, but don’t crush the people. If we had done the same thing in Germany or Japan instead of investing in their economic well being, we would have had the same problem the Israeli’s are facing with the Palestinian militants. What they are doing is just generating more militants.
While this is obviously an extraordinarily sensitive topic, and I have no wish to throw bombs into the middle of the discussion in any way, I do have to wonder a few things.
Michael, where is the line drawn between freedom-fighter and terrorist? It seems fairly clear in your mind, so I direct that to you. Continuing that line of thought, is there ever a point where a freedom-fighter crosses the line into terrorism, or a terrorist into a freedom-fighter?
Second, prior to the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, how would the actions of Jewish groups like the Irgun be classified? Are they to be considered justified in attacking Arab and British interests because they served some “greater good”? Do they get a free pass for engaging in what we commonly refer to as terrorist activities because they were on the “right” side?
IMHO, this is a complicated problem, with roots that stretch back farther than most of us can comprehend. We’re certainly not going to iron out the differences between Jews and Arabs, or solve the situation in the Middle East, in a matter of years, or even decades. That doesn’t mean we don’t TRY, but we shouldn’t expect centuries of simmering anger and distrust on both sides to be set aside in a (relative) instant.
Furthermore, I find it truly insulting to see the tag “anti-semite” lobbed around as freely as you do Michael. I don’t wish to attack you personally, and hope I am not construed as doing so, but your only purpose in using that term can be to attempt to stifle debate over the behavior of the State of Israel, since, as you have shown, anyone who disagrees with you will have their argument branded “irrational” and then tagged an anti-semite. As has been pointed out – it is akin to calling a Democrat who questions the policy and direction of America as “anti-american”. Although I am American but not Jewish, I find both instances apalling.
If we (who I assume have little truly invested in this situation) can not discuss and debate the policy of one country or another without being branded as one of the most hateful discriminators possible, I see little hope for the general situation in the Middle East. Shouting down your opposition is no way to find a path forward.
[...] interaction with Israelis. The general issue of Israel versus Palestinians is being debated on a different thread on this site, but my focus here is a more narrow question: Is it appropriate for a union of teachers to instruct [...]
Ashen,
That’s exactly the point I was making, thank you.
Unfortunately, this imposes a nearly impossible burden on Israel when the militants intentionally embed themselves among the people.
Ashen,
You are an Israel soldier facing these enemies who are shooting at you, what do you do? How do you “crush the militants” without “crushing the civilians” particularly when there are a bevy of people like you blame Israel for every civilian death.
http://www.likud.nl/human-shields.bmp
http://noisyroom.net/blog/l5.jpg
http://clarityandresolve.com/palHumanShields2.jpg
http://www.intelligence.org.il/sp/sib3_04/images/k_12l.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansarelies/PAL-UNAmbulance.jpg
And then there is the despicable indoctrination of youth:
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/boywithgun.jpg
Hamas uses civilians, particularly children, in most of its operations. Israel has plenty of opportunity to kill them, but more often than not does not because of the kids and other noncombatants. Of course, the attack that never happened never gets reported in the news, only the attack that results in innocent death because Hamas hides behind them and exploits their death for propaganda, which you seem to buy hook, line, and sinker.
In contrast to Israel, Hamas intentionally targets civilians 95% of the time. Why is the difference in tactics and intent so difficult for you to understand?
Ok Ashen, you’ve seen the pictures – here’s your gun – go “crush” those militants but you’d better not hurt any civilians.