“There are some who, if they were tied to the whipping-post
and could get but one hand free, would use it to ring the bells
and fire the cannon to celebrate their liberty.”

I realize the D’s have to work within the existing constitutional structure, but find it dismaying to see just how ineffective they are in countering the continuing power abuse by the R’s. I guess after 6 years of the Bushies I’m very very short on patience..

But I do agree that the Democrats were not exactly profiles in courage on this vote and after.

If I were American, I would most certainly not be a Democrat for several reasons: this cowardice is one of them

Unfortunately, right now we have two parties in Congress who lack courage.

The case against the Democrats is obvious following this vote. But it’s been Republicans who’ve followed the president slavishly on virtually every issue since he took office. Even those who publicly express outrage at his actions, like Specter or Hagel have been unwilling to voting against him when he’s wrong.

This is unprecedented in American politics. Members of the House and Senate have typically defended their interests against any president regardless of party. It’s that tension between the branches that helps keep the country from disastrous choices.

By acting like sycophants instead of allies, they’ve ensured him victory in all his battles and failure in the end.

It is a step because the benchmarks were put in and also the minimum wage bill was put into the bill- that will pass as well. The GOP has dedicated itself to puffing up a failed president and making sure the 110th is a do nothing congress – so that they can pave the way to retake congress in ’08. But I don’t think the Democrats view it as a success.

If I were American, I would most certainly not be a Democrat for several reasons: this cowardice is one of them

So is the implication that you would be a Republican because they are courageous legislators?

Where was the Republican courage when they could have stopped the destruction of Habeas Corpus and the codification of torture? Where was the Republican courage to oversee their own President who has done nothing but screw up everything in his path? Where was the courage of the Republicans to stand up for the paiges and kick out Mark Foley?

The list goes on and on…. Don’t pretend like the Democrats have some kind of monopoly on cowardice.

It seems to me that they’re passing this off as the step in the journey. Even the letter from the DCCC that the pissed-off guy at KOS is quoting says:

“As the President’s resistance shows, there is no quick and easy way to end this war.”

And a little further down:

“I will need your help again to take the next step in our fight to end this war.” [Emphasis added by me.]

Years of what Joe called “baloney spin that the White House does” have gotten to this point in our history. I believe that Reid and Pelosi have a plan that will take time to unfold–and will depend on unpredicable circumstances. Because the Democratic Congressional leaders declined to force a Constitutional confrontation this week, does that really make them guilty of what MvdG called “cowardice”?

I’m asking that question seriously.

I am not an idealist. The shortcomings of our institutions are all too obvious to me. But I don’t see a rational way around them.

As kritter said, “BOTH parties are responding to pressure from their base-that’s what is supposed to happen in democracy.”

> it isn’t an abject defeat,
> either.

The war funding surrender is, definitely.

What also has been happening is that Bush has been experiencing (self-)defeat insofar as his administration has reversed its position about willingness to talk to Iran.

kritter is right–you’d condemn the Democrats no matter what they did.

Or do you support defunding the troops?

The Democrats knew that they didn’t have the votes to override Bush’s veto, and they would have to pick up Republican support. The Republican base, however, still supports the war, so their representatives have stuck with the president. The Democrats didn’t get us into this by themselves, so I don’t see them getting us out of it by themselves. Unless the Republican base becomes unhappy with how the war is being fought, I don’t expect much to change. If the war takes a turn for the worse by September, there may be some change in Republican voting patterns. Twelve House Republicans voiced their discontent with the policy last week, and apparently there is a lot more where that came from.

My major point is that BOTH parties are responding to pressure from their base-that’s what is supposed to happen in democracy. But do you really blame the Democrats for not wanting to take the heat for this turkey?

I didn’t think you favored the timelines- if that had passed, wouldn’t you have condemned the Democrats for forcing it through???