Comments on: Jimmy Carter Blasts Bush Foreign Policy And “Subservient” Tony Blair http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:18:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: The Gun Toting Liberalâ„¢ http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81511 The Gun Toting Liberalâ„¢ Sun, 20 May 2007 16:32:00 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81511 [...] hand-picked faves from MemeOrandum’s Blogger Roundup: The Moderate Voice (Joe Gandelman); skippy the bush kangaroo; Liberty Street Technorati Tags:  Bush, Current [...] [...] hand-picked faves from MemeOrandum’s Blogger Roundup: The Moderate Voice (Joe Gandelman); skippy the bush kangaroo; Liberty Street Technorati Tags:  Bush, Current [...]

]]> By: cfpete http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81503 cfpete Sun, 20 May 2007 15:44:55 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81503 From a historical perspective and despite his many other achievements, the President with the worst foreign policy record has to be James Madison. He swayed public opinion towards the necessity of war but seemingly ignored the fact that the U.S. was woefully unable to prosecute a war at that time or even defend its own borders. This, of course, led to British occupation of American land, the blockade of U.S. ports, and the burning of Washington, D.C. Pursuing a war from a point of weakness that places citizens at risk of foreign occupation has to be among the biggest foreign policy mistakes in U.S. history, and is arguably the worst. While the outcome of the War of 1812 was just a return to the pre-war status quo, the intervening years brought the U.S. nothing but lost lives and economic turmoil. Madison’s decision to go to war is especially vexing considering the British offered to end trade restrictions immediately after the U.S. declaration of war (trade restrictions among other grievances supposedly being the main reason for war). In reality, picking the worst foreign policy decision in U.S. history is up to infinite debate. Madison’s War of 1812, Wilson’s intransigence on the Treaty of Versailles …. the list goes on. What can be said, however; is that it is impossible to create a historical comparison when one event is still in the present tense. One can not judge the outcome of the War in Iraq when one does not know the outcome. Any speculation as to the outcome is just that, speculation. Carter would do well to leave that judgment to historians and hope that his name is not amongst those at the top of that list. From a historical perspective and despite his many other achievements, the President with the worst foreign policy record has to be James Madison. He swayed public opinion towards the necessity of war but seemingly ignored the fact that the U.S. was woefully unable to prosecute a war at that time or even defend its own borders. This, of course, led to British occupation of American land, the blockade of U.S. ports, and the burning of Washington, D.C. Pursuing a war from a point of weakness that places citizens at risk of foreign occupation has to be among the biggest foreign policy mistakes in U.S. history, and is arguably the worst. While the outcome of the War of 1812 was just a return to the pre-war status quo, the intervening years brought the U.S. nothing but lost lives and economic turmoil. Madison’s decision to go to war is especially vexing considering the British offered to end trade restrictions immediately after the U.S. declaration of war (trade restrictions among other grievances supposedly being the main reason for war).
In reality, picking the worst foreign policy decision in U.S. history is up to infinite debate. Madison’s War of 1812, Wilson’s intransigence on the Treaty of Versailles …. the list goes on. What can be said, however; is that it is impossible to create a historical comparison when one event is still in the present tense. One can not judge the outcome of the War in Iraq when one does not know the outcome. Any speculation as to the outcome is just that, speculation. Carter would do well to leave that judgment to historians and hope that his name is not amongst those at the top of that list.

]]> By: Rudi http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81494 Rudi Sun, 20 May 2007 15:02:50 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81494 One of the talking heads made a good point about Carter, we must accept the the good with the bad. While he does have oral dysfunction, his work on voting and HFH is more than any previous President has done. Even Clinton is making a fourtune on the speaking tour, none can match Jimmies good work. None are even safe with a hammer in their hands. One of the talking heads made a good point about Carter, we must accept the the good with the bad. While he does have oral dysfunction, his work on voting and HFH is more than any previous President has done. Even Clinton is making a fourtune on the speaking tour, none can match Jimmies good work. None are even safe with a hammer in their hands.

]]> By: dspur1959 http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81484 dspur1959 Sun, 20 May 2007 14:07:10 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81484 And yet, Jimmy Carter CONTINUES to embarrass himself. Why doesnt he just simply go home and relax. Nobody serious contemplates HIS opinions after HIS dismal performance as President. Whatever failings George Bush has, he HASNT left 52 Americans as hostages of a foreign government for over 444 days. He hasnt sat by silently while home mortgage rates climbed to over 20 percent. Mr. Carter cannot say the same and should realize that his failings exceed his successes, at which point, silence would be the rational choice. And believing that if we "just go home" from Iraq, terrorism will subside, was disproved when 3,000 men, women and children died in New York City and on various airplanes around the country when we simply "ignored" the problem like we did when they bombed the USS Cole, and cut and ran from Mogadishu, all of which, by the admission of the terrorist leaders, convinced them that the US is a "paper tiger"(their words). Get it in your head. Terrorists want us converted to radical Islam, or they WANT US DEAD. They only want talk as a means to give them time to plan their next act. Life means nothing to these people. They have killed more muslims that disagree with them than they have anyone else. And yet, Jimmy Carter CONTINUES to embarrass himself. Why doesnt he just simply go home and relax. Nobody serious contemplates HIS opinions after HIS dismal performance as President.

Whatever failings George Bush has, he HASNT left 52 Americans as hostages of a foreign government for over 444 days. He hasnt sat by silently while home mortgage rates climbed to over 20 percent. Mr. Carter cannot say the same and should realize that his failings exceed his successes, at which point, silence would be the rational choice. And believing that if we “just go home” from Iraq, terrorism will subside, was disproved when 3,000 men, women and children died in New York City and on various airplanes around the country when we simply “ignored” the problem like we did when they bombed the USS Cole, and cut and ran from Mogadishu, all of which, by the admission of the terrorist leaders, convinced them that the US is a “paper tiger”(their words).

Get it in your head. Terrorists want us converted to radical Islam, or they WANT US DEAD. They only want talk as a means to give them time to plan their next act. Life means nothing to these people. They have killed more muslims that disagree with them than they have anyone else.

]]> By: bigjhn http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81482 bigjhn Sun, 20 May 2007 14:02:25 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81482 If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. The WORST President next to Clinton blasting Bush....What a Crock. President Bush may not be the best, but he sure the hell didn't put is tail between his legs and run the other way like Carter did with the Iranian Crisis in the Late 70's and Pres. Clinton did with the first WTC Bombing and the Cole and others. Carter was and is a pussy and he made the USA look like the biggest wimp in the world. No Jimmy ole boy, YOU WERE THE WORST!!!! and Clinton ran a close tie behind you. If this isn’t the pot calling the kettle black. The WORST President next to Clinton blasting Bush….What a Crock. President Bush may not be the best, but he sure the hell didn’t put is tail between his legs and run the other way like Carter did with the Iranian Crisis in the Late 70′s and Pres. Clinton did with the first WTC Bombing and the Cole and others. Carter was and is a pussy and he made the USA look like the biggest wimp in the world.

No Jimmy ole boy, YOU WERE THE WORST!!!!
and Clinton ran a close tie behind you.

]]> By: jKachmar http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81479 jKachmar Sun, 20 May 2007 13:55:21 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81479 Old people, which I am quickly approaching, frequently forget their manners and feel fully justified to make life miserable for everybody around them. We should send the angry Jimmy Carter types to the battlefields because the enemy would not have a chance. Go to any restaurant and listen to the outrageous requests, mean spirited comments made by our senior citizens towards the waitstaff. Jimmy Carter has been very angry for many years. I am speaking about the "look" he gives those that disagree with him which gives new meaning to "if looks could kill". Old people, which I am quickly approaching, frequently forget their manners and feel fully justified to make life miserable for everybody around them. We should send the angry Jimmy Carter types to the battlefields because the enemy would not have a chance. Go to any restaurant and listen to the outrageous requests, mean spirited comments made by our senior citizens towards the waitstaff. Jimmy Carter has been very angry for many years. I am speaking about the “look” he gives those that disagree with him which gives new meaning to “if looks could kill”.

]]> By: Idiosyncrat http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81474 Idiosyncrat Sun, 20 May 2007 12:05:20 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81474 Ergh... I forgot to shut off blockquote. Blah! Ergh… I forgot to shut off blockquote. Blah!

]]> By: Idiosyncrat http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81473 Idiosyncrat Sun, 20 May 2007 12:04:38 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81473 <blockquote cite="Might? Tell me you’re not serious."> SteveK, just tryin' to be <i>moderate</i> ;-) Seriously, though, we have a lens of 30 years to judge Carter's actions, motivations, and intended and unintended consequences of his administration and post-presidency actions. There's a whole lot of intended and unintended consequences, not to mention completely independent happenings, to play out before we have such perspective on W. It'll be interesting to see what people are saying about him -- and Carter, since he's still actively building a post-presidency legacy -- in 2012, 2020, and 2037...

SteveK, just tryin’ to be moderate ;-)

Seriously, though, we have a lens of 30 years to judge Carter’s actions, motivations, and intended and unintended consequences of his administration and post-presidency actions. There’s a whole lot of intended and unintended consequences, not to mention completely independent happenings, to play out before we have such perspective on W. It’ll be interesting to see what people are saying about him — and Carter, since he’s still actively building a post-presidency legacy — in 2012, 2020, and 2037…

]]> By: Left Flank » US Needs Home for Senile Ex-Prezzes http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81472 Left Flank » US Needs Home for Senile Ex-Prezzes Sun, 20 May 2007 11:46:56 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81472 [...] It’s the messenger, according to TMV’s Joe Gandelman (a must-read article), who makes Carter’s incompetent administration look like, dare I say, Roh Moo-hyun’s: [...] [...] It’s the messenger, according to TMV’s Joe Gandelman (a must-read article), who makes Carter’s incompetent administration look like, dare I say, Roh Moo-hyun’s: [...]

]]> By: kritter http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81471 kritter Sun, 20 May 2007 09:49:22 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81471 Jimmy Carter's presidency was not successful by any means, though he did have some high points like the Camp David Accords. Most of the time he was at odds with his own party- who unlike today's GOP would not rubber stamp any of his policies. Everything became a battle. An outsider from Plains, Georgia, the peanut farmer did not fit in with the tony Washington cocktail circuit. It seems strange to us now, but his biggest opposition came from the left, from Teddy Kennedy, who at that time had his own presidential ambitions. But Jimmy Carter did not have a Karl Rove in the WH. W, OTOH, is almost universally reviled on the international scene because of his disasterous efforts to remake the Middle East without understanding it or its people, and choice of a unilateralist foreign policy during his first term. His choices for the UN and the World Bank- two neocons who were also not multilateralists, has only made the situation worse. At home he has had many domestic failures: social security reform, Terry Schiavo, Katrina, the US attorney scandal, the nomination of Harriet Miers, just to name a few. The economy, which he continually touts, has only benefitted those at the top of the economic ladder, while the middle class continues to struggle to cover soaring energy costs and pay for their health care. Jimmy Carter’s presidency was not successful by any means, though he did have some high points like the Camp David Accords. Most of the time he was at odds with his own party- who unlike today’s GOP would not rubber stamp any of his policies. Everything became a battle. An outsider from Plains, Georgia, the peanut farmer did not fit in with the tony Washington cocktail circuit. It seems strange to us now, but his biggest opposition came from the left, from Teddy Kennedy, who at that time had his own presidential ambitions. But Jimmy Carter did not have a Karl Rove in the WH.

W, OTOH, is almost universally reviled on the international scene because of his disasterous efforts to remake the Middle East without understanding it or its people, and choice of a unilateralist foreign policy during his first term. His choices for the UN and the World Bank- two neocons who were also not multilateralists, has only made the situation worse. At home he has had many domestic failures: social security reform, Terry Schiavo, Katrina, the US attorney scandal, the nomination of Harriet Miers, just to name a few. The economy, which he continually touts, has only benefitted those at the top of the economic ladder, while the middle class continues to struggle to cover soaring energy costs and pay for their health care.

]]> By: SteveK http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81467 SteveK Sun, 20 May 2007 05:25:15 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81467 <blockquote>Jimmah’s just happy that someone came along before he died who <b>might</b> actually just eclipse his own abysmal performance.</blockquote>Might? Tell me you're not serious. <blockquote>And you don’t need to be a Red State commenter, or anything even close, to this find this laughable...</blockquote>IMO, you do have to be a RedStater, or of that general stripe, to find any of this the least bit laughable. <blockquote>a Red State commenter</blockquote>RedState <b>does not allow</b> ANY exchange of political opinion... They <b>DEMAND</b> all opinion to be in mesh with the ‘RedState Point of View’. The closed door environment that they maintain is so restrictive that they are becoming more and more irrelevant every day. Thank God Joe allows us all to promote and debate our opinions, thoughts and ideas… Imagine different points of view without having to fear of being thrown on a "Pile™". Thanks Joe… great place you’ve got here.

Jimmah’s just happy that someone came along before he died who might actually just eclipse his own abysmal performance.

Might? Tell me you’re not serious.

And you don’t need to be a Red State commenter, or anything even close, to this find this laughable…

IMO, you do have to be a RedStater, or of that general stripe, to find any of this the least bit laughable.

a Red State commenter

RedState does not allow ANY exchange of political opinion… They DEMAND all opinion to be in mesh with the ‘RedState Point of View’. The closed door environment that they maintain is so restrictive that they are becoming more and more irrelevant every day.

Thank God Joe allows us all to promote and debate our opinions, thoughts and ideas… Imagine different points of view without having to fear of being thrown on a “Pileâ„¢”. Thanks Joe… great place you’ve got here.

]]> By: Idiosyncrat http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81464 Idiosyncrat Sun, 20 May 2007 04:17:37 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81464 It's a race to the bottom... Jimmah's just happy that someone came along before he died who might actually just eclipse his own abysmal performance. And you don't need to be a Red State commenter, or anything even close, to this find this laughable... Of course they're going to have a field day with it! It’s a race to the bottom… Jimmah’s just happy that someone came along before he died who might actually just eclipse his own abysmal performance. And you don’t need to be a Red State commenter, or anything even close, to this find this laughable… Of course they’re going to have a field day with it!

]]> By: kritter http://themoderatevoice.com/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/comment-page-1/#comment-81460 kritter Sun, 20 May 2007 03:39:59 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/12934/jimmy-carter-blasts-bush-foreign-policy-and-subservient-tony-blair/#comment-81460 If you go to Red State the commenters are merrily blasting Jimmy Carter- talking about peeing on his grave, and having no state funeral when the old Basta** dies, etc. Because having had a troubled presidency himself, he presumes to judge the Great One. It just proves the point I made that the right is just as mean-spirited as the left was after Jerry Falwell died this week. Isn't that just a wee bit over the top? Jimmy Carter was a well-meaning man who was an ineffective president, George Bush is a well-meaning man who has been an even worse president. Otherwise, why would everyone in the GOP be looking for the next Reagan? If you go to Red State the commenters are merrily blasting Jimmy Carter- talking about peeing on his grave, and having no state funeral when the old Basta** dies, etc. Because having had a troubled presidency himself, he presumes to judge the Great One. It just proves the point I made that the right is just as mean-spirited as the left was after Jerry Falwell died this week. Isn’t that just a wee bit over the top?

Jimmy Carter was a well-meaning man who was an ineffective president, George Bush is a well-meaning man who has been an even worse president. Otherwise, why would everyone in the GOP be looking for the next Reagan?

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