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	<title>Comments on: Administration Withheld E-Mails About Rove</title>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-80031</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 15:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-80031</guid>
		<description>&gt; being left out naked in the freezing cold 

Sadly, Russia is no good these days.  The terrorists deserve Kolyma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; being left out naked in the freezing cold </p>
<p>Sadly, Russia is no good these days.  The terrorists deserve Kolyma.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-80011</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 13:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-80011</guid>
		<description>I wonder if &quot;Turdblossom&quot; would enjoy the examination with the light stick?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if &#8220;Turdblossom&#8221; would enjoy the examination with the light stick?</p>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79987</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 04:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79987</guid>
		<description>Bush, Gonzales , Rove  and the Republicans will stick together and stonewall until the end, in the hopes of mutual survival. The GOP obviously doesn&#039;t care what happens to the justice system in this country as long as their seats are safe. Pretty cowardly and despicable, I&#039;d say. Even their little protest yesterday to the WH was about their own survival, not American soldiers dying for nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush, Gonzales , Rove  and the Republicans will stick together and stonewall until the end, in the hopes of mutual survival. The GOP obviously doesn&#8217;t care what happens to the justice system in this country as long as their seats are safe. Pretty cowardly and despicable, I&#8217;d say. Even their little protest yesterday to the WH was about their own survival, not American soldiers dying for nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: CaseyL</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79983</link>
		<dc:creator>CaseyL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 03:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79983</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Then they could ship them off incommunicado, and neither the courts nor Congress could have access to them!&lt;/i&gt;

If it includes some &quot;coercive interrogation&quot; - esp. waterboarding, sodomy with a light-stick, and being left out naked in the freezing cold - I&#039;m all for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Then they could ship them off incommunicado, and neither the courts nor Congress could have access to them!</i></p>
<p>If it includes some &#8220;coercive interrogation&#8221; &#8211; esp. waterboarding, sodomy with a light-stick, and being left out naked in the freezing cold &#8211; I&#8217;m all for it.</p>
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		<title>By: AustinRoth</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79974</link>
		<dc:creator>AustinRoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 00:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79974</guid>
		<description>Perhaps Bush should declare Rove and Gonzalez enemy combatants. 

Then they could ship them off incommunicado, and neither the courts nor Congress could have access to them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps Bush should declare Rove and Gonzalez enemy combatants. </p>
<p>Then they could ship them off incommunicado, and neither the courts nor Congress could have access to them!</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79964</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 22:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79964</guid>
		<description>Kritter said:

&gt; They are all in a â€œstate of denialâ€.

I disagree.  I believe the word is &quot;defiance.&quot;  There&#039;s a bit of weasel-dom included, as well, since I doubt the Bush people intended to get caught or exposed at doing what they are doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kritter said:</p>
<p>&gt; They are all in a â€œstate of denialâ€.</p>
<p>I disagree.  I believe the word is &#8220;defiance.&#8221;  There&#8217;s a bit of weasel-dom included, as well, since I doubt the Bush people intended to get caught or exposed at doing what they are doing.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveK</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79957</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 22:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79957</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sam Says: 
The Bush administration seems to be in a similar state. They are obviously covering up things in just about every arena. When asked about anything from energy policy, domestic spying, treatment of prisoners, appointments, lobbying connections or even the touching of young interns all of a sudden files are lost, executive privilege get invoked, or some other delaying tactic is used to shift attention long enough.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Well said Sam... In three short paragraphs you have given an accurate overview of the current situation, and potential future problems being forced on us by the Bush Administration. They threaten not only our country and the American way of life but the entire planet. 

Shame on George W. Bush and 28% that refuse to open their eyes... How anyone can defend these people is beyond me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sam Says:<br />
The Bush administration seems to be in a similar state. They are obviously covering up things in just about every arena. When asked about anything from energy policy, domestic spying, treatment of prisoners, appointments, lobbying connections or even the touching of young interns all of a sudden files are lost, executive privilege get invoked, or some other delaying tactic is used to shift attention long enough.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well said Sam&#8230; In three short paragraphs you have given an accurate overview of the current situation, and potential future problems being forced on us by the Bush Administration. They threaten not only our country and the American way of life but the entire planet. </p>
<p>Shame on George W. Bush and 28% that refuse to open their eyes&#8230; How anyone can defend these people is beyond me.</p>
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		<title>By: Batocchio</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79956</link>
		<dc:creator>Batocchio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 21:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79956</guid>
		<description>Well, it&#039;s not as if these are honorable people.  Gonzales, with his &#039;I don&#039;t know what happened but I&#039;m sure nothing wrong did&#039; schtick certainly hasn&#039;t been trying to elucidate things, he&#039;s been obfuscating them and stalling the investigation.  Gonzales&#039; main function at this point is to slow down the march towards Rove, Bush and any others.  That&#039;s one of the chief reasons Bush can continue to say he&#039;s so pleased with Gonzales - he is.    

I would add, though, that incompetence and secrecy aren&#039;t just a bad combination, they&#039;re a common one.  As a few writers have pointed out (I believe Digby being one), corrupt, incompetent governments always try to cover their deeds up.  I&#039;ve lost track of all the contradictions, shifting stories or lies coming from the Bush administration on this affair.  Demanding honesty and accountability should not be partisan issues.   If an accurate, honest account of what went on would exonerate them, they&#039;d have offered it long ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s not as if these are honorable people.  Gonzales, with his &#8216;I don&#8217;t know what happened but I&#8217;m sure nothing wrong did&#8217; schtick certainly hasn&#8217;t been trying to elucidate things, he&#8217;s been obfuscating them and stalling the investigation.  Gonzales&#8217; main function at this point is to slow down the march towards Rove, Bush and any others.  That&#8217;s one of the chief reasons Bush can continue to say he&#8217;s so pleased with Gonzales &#8211; he is.    </p>
<p>I would add, though, that incompetence and secrecy aren&#8217;t just a bad combination, they&#8217;re a common one.  As a few writers have pointed out (I believe Digby being one), corrupt, incompetent governments always try to cover their deeds up.  I&#8217;ve lost track of all the contradictions, shifting stories or lies coming from the Bush administration on this affair.  Demanding honesty and accountability should not be partisan issues.   If an accurate, honest account of what went on would exonerate them, they&#8217;d have offered it long ago.</p>
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		<title>By: zack</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79955</link>
		<dc:creator>zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 21:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79955</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s &lt;em&gt;National Journa&lt;/em&gt;l not &lt;em&gt;National Review&lt;/em&gt;.

Big difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s <em>National Journa</em>l not <em>National Review</em>.</p>
<p>Big difference.</p>
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		<title>By: PK</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79954</link>
		<dc:creator>PK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 21:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79954</guid>
		<description>If I had to place a bet on what will happen, I would lay my chips on the WH stonewalling, and Gonzales and Rove stay where they are.  From a hardball political standpoint what is the downside for the WH?  They piss off the D&#039;s in Congress...they are already pissed off.  The general public gets more pissed off...so what, Bush&#039;s poll numbers are already at 28%, so they go down another 3 or 4 points, big deal.

From Bush&#039;s perspective, he has no incentive to budge an inch on this matter.  If I thought he was really worried about the impact that all of this could potentially have on Republican prospects in the 2008 election, I&#039;d say he might at least cut Gonzales loose.  But I doubt he is really losing any sleep over what could happen in the 2008 election. 

My money stays on &quot;steady as she goes&quot; for the WH.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I had to place a bet on what will happen, I would lay my chips on the WH stonewalling, and Gonzales and Rove stay where they are.  From a hardball political standpoint what is the downside for the WH?  They piss off the D&#8217;s in Congress&#8230;they are already pissed off.  The general public gets more pissed off&#8230;so what, Bush&#8217;s poll numbers are already at 28%, so they go down another 3 or 4 points, big deal.</p>
<p>From Bush&#8217;s perspective, he has no incentive to budge an inch on this matter.  If I thought he was really worried about the impact that all of this could potentially have on Republican prospects in the 2008 election, I&#8217;d say he might at least cut Gonzales loose.  But I doubt he is really losing any sleep over what could happen in the 2008 election. </p>
<p>My money stays on &#8220;steady as she goes&#8221; for the WH.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79952</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 21:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79952</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of our holding pattern on the tobacco industry a few years ago.  Everyone knew Big Tobacco was lying thru their teeth about the harmful effects of their product, but no one seemed to really be able to hold them accountable for it as long as they kept towing the line and obfuscating the matter.   It took one of their own to really point out exactly how far they had gone before we were able to nail those bastards to the wall for their costly deceptions.   

The Bush administration seems to be in a similar state.  They are obviously covering up things in just about every arena.   When asked about anything from energy policy, domestic spying, treatment of prisoners, appointments, lobbying connections or even the touching of young interns all of a sudden files are lost, executive privilege get invoked, or some other delaying tactic is used to shift attention long enough.   The president personally has stepped in to prevent key people from testifying under oath for gods sake.   

Some times I forget what country I&#039;m living in.  My country, the USA, is supposed to be a place where those in power are held accountable because history has shown us when they are not things go to hell in a handcart.  Pretty soon you have the gov&#039;t spying on its citizens, arresting folks without a trials, torturing anyone they see as a threat.   In order to hold them accountable they have to tell us what they are doing and why.  Not us the people, but at least Congress or appropriate commitees where sensitive issues are concerned.   A gov&#039;t that insists on operating in the dark is a gov&#039;t that is a threat to its own people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of our holding pattern on the tobacco industry a few years ago.  Everyone knew Big Tobacco was lying thru their teeth about the harmful effects of their product, but no one seemed to really be able to hold them accountable for it as long as they kept towing the line and obfuscating the matter.   It took one of their own to really point out exactly how far they had gone before we were able to nail those bastards to the wall for their costly deceptions.   </p>
<p>The Bush administration seems to be in a similar state.  They are obviously covering up things in just about every arena.   When asked about anything from energy policy, domestic spying, treatment of prisoners, appointments, lobbying connections or even the touching of young interns all of a sudden files are lost, executive privilege get invoked, or some other delaying tactic is used to shift attention long enough.   The president personally has stepped in to prevent key people from testifying under oath for gods sake.   </p>
<p>Some times I forget what country I&#8217;m living in.  My country, the USA, is supposed to be a place where those in power are held accountable because history has shown us when they are not things go to hell in a handcart.  Pretty soon you have the gov&#8217;t spying on its citizens, arresting folks without a trials, torturing anyone they see as a threat.   In order to hold them accountable they have to tell us what they are doing and why.  Not us the people, but at least Congress or appropriate commitees where sensitive issues are concerned.   A gov&#8217;t that insists on operating in the dark is a gov&#8217;t that is a threat to its own people.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79950</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 20:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79950</guid>
		<description>kritter is right, why would Bush fire Gonzales or Rove for doing exactly what he wants and expects them to do.  Even if he did fire them, it would only because they&#039;ve botched the cover-up, not because they betrayed the public trust.

But I am glad that you&#039;re as incensed as I am Michael. As a country we need to unite around the idea of responsible and open government, independent of political affiliation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kritter is right, why would Bush fire Gonzales or Rove for doing exactly what he wants and expects them to do.  Even if he did fire them, it would only because they&#8217;ve botched the cover-up, not because they betrayed the public trust.</p>
<p>But I am glad that you&#8217;re as incensed as I am Michael. As a country we need to unite around the idea of responsible and open government, independent of political affiliation.</p>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/comment-page-1/#comment-79948</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 20:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/karl-rove/12747/administration-withheld-e-mails-about-rove/#comment-79948</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure how much more it can hurt Gonzales or Karl Rove. Both serve at the pleasure of the president and retain his full confidence in their ability to fulfill their duties in the administration. In any case neither has much of a reputation left to ruin.

Translation- they will have to be dragged kicking and screaming from their posts  or endure hearing the gossip from now until Bush leaves in 2009. No one in this administration has the grace to be embarassed by their wrongdoing and leave office on their own anymore. They are all in a &quot;state of denial&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure how much more it can hurt Gonzales or Karl Rove. Both serve at the pleasure of the president and retain his full confidence in their ability to fulfill their duties in the administration. In any case neither has much of a reputation left to ruin.</p>
<p>Translation- they will have to be dragged kicking and screaming from their posts  or endure hearing the gossip from now until Bush leaves in 2009. No one in this administration has the grace to be embarassed by their wrongdoing and leave office on their own anymore. They are all in a &#8220;state of denial&#8221;.</p>
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