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	<title>Comments on: Iraqi Christians Flee Baghdad</title>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79798</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 23:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79798</guid>
		<description>What about moving back to protect the Kurds? They actually do want democracy and seem to be thriving without Saddam. That would still leave the Sunnis and Shiites to battle it out on their own. The biggest fear is probably the increased interference of the surrounding countries, which would lead to regional war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about moving back to protect the Kurds? They actually do want democracy and seem to be thriving without Saddam. That would still leave the Sunnis and Shiites to battle it out on their own. The biggest fear is probably the increased interference of the surrounding countries, which would lead to regional war.</p>
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		<title>By: Bones_708</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79784</link>
		<dc:creator>Bones_708</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 21:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79784</guid>
		<description>MVG you really seem to have stopped caring what is going on anymore. It&#039;s like you&#039;re tired of hearing and thinking about it and just want it to go away or be quiet. That really is not the best position for decision making. You have already declared that the surge cannot work. Now even before it is fully implemented you have declared it a failure. On what basis? Why you have anecdotal evidence of an issue in one Baghdad neighborhood. No stats, no graphs, no discussions on tactics, just that there is a problem in a neighborhood that must mean the surge is failing. You are making uneducated assumptions. If the surge fails I&#039;m sure you will trumpet how right you were, but it would be like the guy who knew the stock was going to go up without even looking at the company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MVG you really seem to have stopped caring what is going on anymore. It&#8217;s like you&#8217;re tired of hearing and thinking about it and just want it to go away or be quiet. That really is not the best position for decision making. You have already declared that the surge cannot work. Now even before it is fully implemented you have declared it a failure. On what basis? Why you have anecdotal evidence of an issue in one Baghdad neighborhood. No stats, no graphs, no discussions on tactics, just that there is a problem in a neighborhood that must mean the surge is failing. You are making uneducated assumptions. If the surge fails I&#8217;m sure you will trumpet how right you were, but it would be like the guy who knew the stock was going to go up without even looking at the company.</p>
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		<title>By: C Stanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79762</link>
		<dc:creator>C Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 20:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79762</guid>
		<description>Ah, of course, I see that now, Mikkel. For some reason I misread your comment and missed the obvious clue from the number of troops that you used, that you weren&#039;t talking about the surge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, of course, I see that now, Mikkel. For some reason I misread your comment and missed the obvious clue from the number of troops that you used, that you weren&#8217;t talking about the surge.</p>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79729</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 19:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79729</guid>
		<description>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E6DB1E31F936A25750C0A9619C8B63</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E6DB1E31F936A25750C0A9619C8B63" rel="nofollow">http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E6DB1E31F936A25750C0A9619C8B63</a></p>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79728</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 19:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79728</guid>
		<description>CS I&#039;m not talking about the surge, I&#039;m talking about MvdG&#039;s Hillary thing. I agree with your assessment on that.

Of course I looked it up and that&#039;s not what she&#039;s proposing.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton foresees a &#039;&#039;remaining military as well as political mission&#039;&#039; in Iraq, and says that if elected president, she would keep a reduced military force there to fight Al Qaeda, deter Iranian aggression, protect the Kurds and possibly support the Iraqi military.

In a half-hour interview on Tuesday in her Senate office, Mrs. Clinton said the scaled-down American military force that she would maintain would stay off the streets in Baghdad and would no longer try to protect Iraqis from sectarian violence -- even if it descended into ethnic cleansing.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
In short, the troops wouldn&#039;t be doing much patrolling at all. I&#039;d imagine that the only active combat troops would be strike forces to attack Al Qaeda with the remaining troops based in Kurdistan for deterence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CS I&#8217;m not talking about the surge, I&#8217;m talking about MvdG&#8217;s Hillary thing. I agree with your assessment on that.</p>
<p>Of course I looked it up and that&#8217;s not what she&#8217;s proposing.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton foresees a &#8221;remaining military as well as political mission&#8221; in Iraq, and says that if elected president, she would keep a reduced military force there to fight Al Qaeda, deter Iranian aggression, protect the Kurds and possibly support the Iraqi military.</p>
<p>In a half-hour interview on Tuesday in her Senate office, Mrs. Clinton said the scaled-down American military force that she would maintain would stay off the streets in Baghdad and would no longer try to protect Iraqis from sectarian violence &#8212; even if it descended into ethnic cleansing.
</p></blockquote>
<p>In short, the troops wouldn&#8217;t be doing much patrolling at all. I&#8217;d imagine that the only active combat troops would be strike forces to attack Al Qaeda with the remaining troops based in Kurdistan for deterence.</p>
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		<title>By: C Stanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79720</link>
		<dc:creator>C Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 19:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79720</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I donâ€™t see how 75k soldiers can possibly hope to contain the violence. It might slow it down, but a genocide/civil war carried out over a decade is still genocide/civil war. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

But no one ever said that just adding 75K soldiers would contain the violence. The strategy involved a lot of other policy changes and clearly it&#039;s an attempt to slow down the violence enough to allow the political changes and reconstruction to take place. There are signs that the political part isn&#039;t working which is no surprise because of the difficulty of the situation and the fact that this all comes too little too late, but that still doesn&#039;t change the fact that no one has been foolish enough to think that this was just a matter of adding more troops doing the same thing as before and expecting a different outcome.

MvdG: What I don&#039;t understand is, if you favor leaving half the troop force, what if the facts on the ground indicate that this would be more dangerous for the troops that are there and that it would actually be like subjecting them to a suicide mission? It seems to me that that taking half of the troops away would be highly dangerous for the ones who are still there and what made sense to me about the surge is that it was putting all the troops that we can in, partly because that&#039;s preferable to being so highly undermanned that we&#039;re completely unable to contain the sectarian fighting at all. Having that few troops IMO would either mean that they&#039;d be completely ineffective if they have to simply hide out in the Green Zone, or that they&#039;d be in grave danger of getting caught in the crossfire without having the manpower to do anything about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I donâ€™t see how 75k soldiers can possibly hope to contain the violence. It might slow it down, but a genocide/civil war carried out over a decade is still genocide/civil war. </p></blockquote>
<p>But no one ever said that just adding 75K soldiers would contain the violence. The strategy involved a lot of other policy changes and clearly it&#8217;s an attempt to slow down the violence enough to allow the political changes and reconstruction to take place. There are signs that the political part isn&#8217;t working which is no surprise because of the difficulty of the situation and the fact that this all comes too little too late, but that still doesn&#8217;t change the fact that no one has been foolish enough to think that this was just a matter of adding more troops doing the same thing as before and expecting a different outcome.</p>
<p>MvdG: What I don&#8217;t understand is, if you favor leaving half the troop force, what if the facts on the ground indicate that this would be more dangerous for the troops that are there and that it would actually be like subjecting them to a suicide mission? It seems to me that that taking half of the troops away would be highly dangerous for the ones who are still there and what made sense to me about the surge is that it was putting all the troops that we can in, partly because that&#8217;s preferable to being so highly undermanned that we&#8217;re completely unable to contain the sectarian fighting at all. Having that few troops IMO would either mean that they&#8217;d be completely ineffective if they have to simply hide out in the Green Zone, or that they&#8217;d be in grave danger of getting caught in the crossfire without having the manpower to do anything about it.</p>
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		<title>By: The &#8220;Surge&#8221; is Working &#124; The Moderate Voice</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79705</link>
		<dc:creator>The &#8220;Surge&#8221; is Working &#124; The Moderate Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 18:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79705</guid>
		<description>[...] title makes no sense, does it? After all, bombs are still going off, minority groups are still being targeted, and almost all the people in the media and the blogosphere are unified in their assessment of Iraq [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] title makes no sense, does it? After all, bombs are still going off, minority groups are still being targeted, and almost all the people in the media and the blogosphere are unified in their assessment of Iraq [...]</p>
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		<title>By: hanginjohnny</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79699</link>
		<dc:creator>hanginjohnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 18:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79699</guid>
		<description>kind of reminds me of local ex-Town of Islip Supervisor Pete McGowan&#039;s ad campaign -
&quot;Thanks Pete, the Plan is Working&quot;.....only Pete&#039;s plan was to soak millions out of the coffers...he got caught, of course.

Thanks&#039; Petreaus, the Surge is Working.....

 I think you  may need to comment code the sarcasm because people are too obtuse and lack basic reading skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kind of reminds me of local ex-Town of Islip Supervisor Pete McGowan&#8217;s ad campaign -<br />
&#8220;Thanks Pete, the Plan is Working&#8221;&#8230;..only Pete&#8217;s plan was to soak millions out of the coffers&#8230;he got caught, of course.</p>
<p>Thanks&#8217; Petreaus, the Surge is Working&#8230;..</p>
<p> I think you  may need to comment code the sarcasm because people are too obtuse and lack basic reading skills.</p>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79687</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 17:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79687</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see how 75k soldiers can possibly hope to contain the violence. It might slow it down, but a genocide/civil war carried out over a decade is still genocide/civil war.  I think the only way to &quot;save&quot; the country would be to come in with hundreds of thousands and impose our will. Of course the populace doesn&#039;t want this so it wouldn&#039;t really be saving them and comparisons to Vietnam would become more apt.

I have yet to hear any good strategy proposal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see how 75k soldiers can possibly hope to contain the violence. It might slow it down, but a genocide/civil war carried out over a decade is still genocide/civil war.  I think the only way to &#8220;save&#8221; the country would be to come in with hundreds of thousands and impose our will. Of course the populace doesn&#8217;t want this so it wouldn&#8217;t really be saving them and comparisons to Vietnam would become more apt.</p>
<p>I have yet to hear any good strategy proposal.</p>
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		<title>By: Davebo</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79675</link>
		<dc:creator>Davebo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 16:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79675</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Davebo: as those who actually read what I write know&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not only have I actually read what you write, I paraphrased it in my response.

I&#039;m open to the possibility that you could have had second thoughts, but you certainly offer no evidence of that here.

So rather than whine that folks don&#039;t actually read your writings, how about trying to stand behind them, perhaps even justify them for a change?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Davebo: as those who actually read what I write know</p></blockquote>
<p>Not only have I actually read what you write, I paraphrased it in my response.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m open to the possibility that you could have had second thoughts, but you certainly offer no evidence of that here.</p>
<p>So rather than whine that folks don&#8217;t actually read your writings, how about trying to stand behind them, perhaps even justify them for a change?</p>
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		<title>By: The Gun Toting Liberalâ„¢</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79671</link>
		<dc:creator>The Gun Toting Liberalâ„¢</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 16:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79671</guid>
		<description>[...] See Also: The Moderate Voice&#8217;s Michael van der Galien (sarcastically) points out how the &#8220;surge&#8221; is working [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] See Also: The Moderate Voice&#8217;s Michael van der Galien (sarcastically) points out how the &#8220;surge&#8221; is working [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael van der Galien</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79668</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der Galien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 16:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79668</guid>
		<description>Davebo: as those who actually read what I write know, I am very critical of the surge and of the Iraq war in general. That being said, I do believe that nearly complete or complete withdrawal is not an option. It would result in mass genocide. I am open to the Hillary plan: 75,000 soldiers present, the rest withdrawn (after the surge that is). Keep there, until Iraq is more stable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Davebo: as those who actually read what I write know, I am very critical of the surge and of the Iraq war in general. That being said, I do believe that nearly complete or complete withdrawal is not an option. It would result in mass genocide. I am open to the Hillary plan: 75,000 soldiers present, the rest withdrawn (after the surge that is). Keep there, until Iraq is more stable.</p>
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		<title>By: Davebo</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/comment-page-1/#comment-79667</link>
		<dc:creator>Davebo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 16:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/12720/iraqi-christians-flee-baghdad/#comment-79667</guid>
		<description>Wow, fairly flippant MVG.

It must be nice to have such a casual relationship with the reality you cheered on.

If only those actually affected could joke about it in such detached joy.

Oh well, so long as Harry Reid is a traitor and Fred Thompson speaks to truth I guess everything is hunky dory.

Well, that and your Treasury is safe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, fairly flippant MVG.</p>
<p>It must be nice to have such a casual relationship with the reality you cheered on.</p>
<p>If only those actually affected could joke about it in such detached joy.</p>
<p>Oh well, so long as Harry Reid is a traitor and Fred Thompson speaks to truth I guess everything is hunky dory.</p>
<p>Well, that and your Treasury is safe.</p>
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