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World’s Worst People
For their outrageous and appalling response to the Virginia Tech Massacre, John Derbyshire and Nathaniel Blake deserve nothing but scorn.
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44 Responses to “World’s Worst People”
Having been shot at before, I can say these guys are beyond contempt.
Unless you are highly trained, there is no way to overcome an armed assailant, and even then your chances are slim to none. I employed the approved Army method of unarmed combat against an armed opponent and ran like hell.
Some people are starting to have a real hard time distinguishing between a Rambo movie and real life.
I think its way to early to start naming “heroes” and blaming others for “non action”. Your heroes may be disputed and your cowards might sue your arse. Ass is the first word in assume so lets not assume anything.
We just saw the most bizarre “memorial� pep rally I, for one, have ever seen. I’m getting the feeling that we are not getting this right. Lets just slow down and find out why this individual did this. All this media will undoubtedly cause a copy cat attempt IMO!
Back the flip off media!
I agree . That was deplorable .Now contrast that with the hero who had survived the Holocaust only to die protecting his students .I hope this guy gets a thread or two .
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/187450.php
Slain VT Professor Saves Students: Hero & Holocaust Survivor
Let the name of Professor Liviu Librescu be known for all time as a hero. Dr. Librescu survived the Holocaust and the Soviet labor camps. God spared his life from the two greatest evils of the 20th century, but chose to call him home at the hands of another evil. His sacrifice should never be forgotten.
Be prepared for tears………
Professor Liviu Librescu, 76, threw himself in front of the shooter when the man attempted to enter his classroom. The Israeli mechanics and engineering lecturer was shot to death, “but all the students lived – because of him,” Virginia Tech student Asael Arad – also an Israeli – told Army Radio.
Several of Librescu’s other students sent e-mails to his wife, Marlena, telling of how he blocked the gunman’s way and saved their lives, said Librescu’s son, Joe.
“My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee,” Joe Librescu said in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. “Students started opening windows and jumping out.”
Hero. Here is Dr. Librescu’s VT homepage.
I suspect that as the horrifying events at Virginia Tech become clearer, that we will learn of many similar heroic acts.
That said…I don’t understand how he killed that many people with two handguns.
He killed more than other of the other mass shootings in American history…walking about full in the open with only a couple of handguns.
Consider the other mass shootings – which killed fewer: the kids at Columbine were armed to the teeth in comparison…the sniper in the tower was in a secure position.
Was the response time of the police slower here? Was there more chaos?
Police should have been all over that campus, given the killings of two people earlier in the day.
I just don’t understand how he could go on killing so many for so long.
WhiteAgent said:
Sorry. Still working, so have not seen. There was a rally? Why did it seem bizarre, WA?
A legitimate question that should be answered in depressing detail in the coming weeks.
Todays first person shooters are training really good killers.
The Army understands this.
Almost all the victims had been shot more than three times, so the guy took his time about it.
The lesson here is that if someone is willing to die, and wants to kill a lot of people, then you can’t really stop them.
Life is not certain and no one can protect you from every possible danger.
So tell the people close to you you love them everyday, and live everyday like it might be your last.
You would be surprised how bright the sun is, and how lovely a big blue sky is, when you live this way.
Let this teach us that if nothing else
Marlowe- “Memorial Pep Rally”……that’s not bizarre? Rah Rah go team go…hand claps after prayers? Its bizarre to me because its a Memorial not a show to “buck up the home front”.
I can’t say that anything the president said was inappropriate, (and you know I would haver, had there been), or otherwise bizzare I must say though, that the political speech by governor Kaine with vailed accusations toward the media and their questions as being, “disturbing”, for daring to look for fault in the glory of the university….was at the least…..bizzare if not stupidly self serving.
Clearly the school reacted slowly and the media was on the hunt as they should have been.
Like I said, I haven’t seen it. From what you say, it sounds pretty odd.
One would have thought of more solemnity.
If the governor’s speech was political…I hope it blows up in his face. God, the funerals have not yet even occurred.
Snarky Shark said:
True.
> Having been shot at before,
> I can say these guys are
> beyond contempt.
I’ve had a gun pulled on me before, which comes far, far behind, except if you’ve also seen that metal ring with the dark interior while being shot at.
It’s a deterrent to rushing the guy, let’s put it that way.
> Now contrast that with the hero
> who had survived the Holocaust
> only to die protecting his students
Yep. Just like 1972 Olympic Village.
I think Schraub misses the point that Derbyshire and Blake were trying to make. That if someone had tried to stop the shooter, it might have bought time for someone else to disable him, or for others to escape. Which might have reduced the casualty list.
For once I agree with White Agent – it’s probably best not to try too hard to label people as heroes or goats at this point.
> Todays first person shooters
> are training really good killers.
>
> The Army understands this.
!! Grossman (“On Killing”), violent media…I have the book, I’ve seen the site…
… click:
“Just as the army is conditioning people to kill, we are indiscriminately doing the same thing to our children, but without the safeguards.”
http://www.killology.com/article_teachkid.htm
http://www.killology.com/art_teach_operant.htm
http://www.killology.com/art_trained_video.htm
School attacks
http://www.killology.com/schoolattack.htm
[Why didn't the other people rush the guy?]
“Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.�
http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm
By the way, Chris, though we aren’t carpet bombing and neither is Israel, so don’t repeat that tired claim, there is something in there about what can and can’t be claimed about bombing, which many of us have known already by studying the history of air power and so-called “strategic bombing” of cities in World War II. (Even lesser air power is subject to what I call the conceit that always has accompanied aviation, just as there was conceit about naval power prior to aviation, not only due to technology but for power projection and avoidance of land warfare. I’ve told people when doing air-combat-related work that the real targets, those of the highest value, are on the ground. And as you read the following, think about how it relates to warships in the past, as well as on what you can and cannot expect from air strikes against an adversary such as Iran. There’s even some sentiment here that could be directed at Rumsfeld and his high-tech, hands-off, fewer-personnel approach to Iraq that many have crititized. We had to go “into the building” anyway, didn’t we? See below.)
“… Since then airpower advocates have repeatedly proclaimed their ability to win wars solely through what has accurately been termed ‘distant punishment.’ …”
“I would submit to you that using distant punishment to influence a nation is like trying to get rid of the rats living in an inhabited residence, without ever entering the building. … some among our military community are still too fastidious to enter the building and confront the rats, and they have come up with the bizarre idea of placing snipers at the windows and periodically firing at the rats with shotguns and high powered rifles.”
http://www.killology.com/art_bombing.htm
Wow, these guys honestly are expecting college students who are one minute leading normal lives and the next in a life or death situation to fully grasp the situation and decide to risk their lives? Wondering how a guy armed with only 2 pistols can wreak so much death? I especially like the advice about it only being a .22, how much damage can it do? He needs to have a .22 shot into his guts from 25 feet away and feel it pinball around his body cavity then tell us how best to charge a man so armed.
He claimed the title chickenhawk for himself. Thanks for saving the rest of us the effort of simply branding you with it.
Orson,
The point, as Mr. Blake made abundantly clear, is that the VTech students should be “ashamed” of themselves for not “rushing the shooter.” This sentiment is appalling to the point of being inhuman, and I don’t back down from calling it out.
“I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can’t hit squat.”
I have the feeling that that author is opposed to licensing and worse yet, testing in order to qualify for gun possession.
> Something is clearly wrong
> with the men in our culture.
[noting the older man's courage]
Could be post-1960s effects of societal change. I’ve seen claims that this is so — feminism degrading men, but more than that, absence of male role models (a minority become criminally violent as well as having no conscience from no control, the rest also do without a role model).
> expecting college students
> who are one minute leading
> normal lives and the next in
> a life or death situation to
> fully grasp the situation and
> decide to risk their lives?
While confused, then frightened as well as confused, then maybe even worried there might be more than one shooter? Run and hide!
One gun was a .22 rimfire…
> it only being a .22, how
> much damage can it do?
Lethal damage, mere “pop gun” that it is among cartridges, depending on where the bullet strikes.
The other gun was a 9 mm centerfire, which can do much more.
> should be “ashamedâ€? …
> appalling to the point of
> being inhuman
You are overreacting. What we may indeed see with the kids is shame or guilt (second-guessing themselves and their acts), though I believe many will not be ashamed at all. The killer had multiple guns and plenty of ammo!
.22s are the preferred weapons for mafia hit men and Intelligence agencies.
And hollow points make them even more lethal.
Also, anybody that thinks you can count bullets untill reload doesn’t have a clue.
How many round magazine is it? Did he start with a round in the chamber? When did he last reload. Was that last 10 second lull in the gunfire before before he appeared a reload moment, or lack of targets? What the hell kind of gun is it? etc etc.
And then make these judgments while your friends are dying all around you.
These idiots have jumped the shark. They would have done better to just taken a day off and reflected on the differences between real life and their hero fetishes.
Could be post-1960s effects of societal change. I’ve seen claims that this is so — feminism degrading men, but more than that, absence of male role models (a minority become criminally violent as well as having no conscience from no control, the rest also do without a role model).
None of which applies to the shooter in this case, but the Right can’t resist a chance to slam feminism and the hippies. Sure, and no policies or social changes more recent than 40 years ago could’ve had anything to do with it.
This is a country where guns are much easier to get than, say, help for mental disorders, where there’s a he-man culture that encourages violence as a response to life’s challenges. It’s a formula for periodic mass killings.
The only thing I can think of that might change things is if prospective gun buyers have to prove they’re not potential homicidal maniacs. Considering how difficult it is to get any gun control passed, that’s not about to happen.
Or maybe it’s todays kill first, negotiate never attitude?
Or maybe its the unicorns.
David,
Your lack of understanding is not surprising. You condemned Imus for racist speech, but excused rap artists for using the same slurs. If what Derbyshire and Blake suggested is inhuman, then that same charge applies equally to anyone resisting the gunman. You cannot have it both ways. Maybe it would be best to recognize that in a situation like this, decisions have to be made that cannot be carefully pondered.
Would doing nothing have saved lives? It is probably too soon to tell, if we will ever be able to say with any assurance of accuracy. From the reports we have, it sounds as if the killer was not sparing people. If that is correct, sitting quietly wasn’t likely to save lives, but resisting might have saved lives. If so, then what at least one professor did, by resisting, may have saved lives. If so, then the argument offered by Derbyshire and Blake is really not different from the split second decision which the professor made: to resist the gunman.
I agree that Derbyshire and Blake are talking about something they cannot speak to with experience. That is a fact we should all be grateful for. But for you to condemn them as the worst people in the world is over the top. Calling them inhuman makes a mockery out of the term. What Derbyshire and Blake did was speak with terms of thoughtless bravado. What the killer did was inhuman. If you cannot distinguish between the two, I pity you.
“If what Derbyshire and Blake suggested is inhuman, then that same charge applies equally to anyone resisting the gunman.”
Err…what? Because I refuse to join Derbyshire in condemning people who didn’t actively resist the gunmen, I have to condemn those who did? This is what passes for a logical argument these days?
The killer (who, to no tears of mine, is no longer “of this world”) is a far far worse person than Mr. Derbyshire. And if we want to be literal, there are many other worse people in the world–anyone who today is deliberately killing innocents. I am keenly cognizant of the difference, and I’m sure in your less 6th grader moments you recognize literary license and metaphor.
But regardless of whether they are the literal worst people in the world, Derbyshire and Blake’s comments go beyond exaggerated bravado. They weren’t arguing that had the students resisted, some deaths could have been averted. It’s you who is missing the plain meaning of their rhetoric. They were saying the students were bad people for not doing so. Derbyshire chides them for not having “the spirit of self-defense,” and implies they should have known the calibur and clip-size of the gun (not to mention acted on it). Blake says the kids (not the killer, amazingly, but the dead students!) prove “Something is clearly wrong with the men in our culture,” and that they should be “ashamed.”
Calling dead 19-year olds cowards who ought to be ashamed of themselves a day after their deaths is sick and twisted. This has nothing to do with one’s opinions of rappers. This has to do with whether you possess a conscience.
And now that I think of it, I don’t think I defended misogynistic slurs in rap. In fact, I conceded that there was misogyny in hip-hop. My actual argument was that a) the amount of misogyny is wildly overstated, generally by people who don’t actually listen to it and b) there are plenty of countervailing positive factors about hip-hop which deserve to be part of the discussion that are never mentioned–e.g., its relative political savvy compared to, say, the latest Brittany Spears sap.
Hey, you just described our current foreign policy!
Did that occur to you, or was that platitude thrown out in some attempt to inject some humanity into your post, because I found your post quite lacking in that department.
Derbyshire crossed the line talking smack about the Brits, this just makes sure he can never come back.
New Rule, people who don’t know crap about what a soldier really goes through doesn’t get to front like they do.
Same goes for acting like they can know anything about what these kids went through.
There are more than a few stories of level headed kids barricading the doors and saving lives like that.
Probably a better use of endangered resources (your life), don’t you think?
Probably better thing to do than going after the guy with a flying karate kick, eh?
Assuming you knew karate.
If we are going to speculate and all.
I wonder if these two heros wipe the Cheetos stains before they type their BULLSHIT. I know all those Lefty emails make them shudder more than bullets flying….
I think Derbyshire understands that we have in this country adopted an attitude towards coddling victims that has overtaken our respect for the virtue of courage.
Speaking for myself, I’m expecting to catch hell because I understand that implicitly, without the need for a lot of mumbo jumbo explanations. I think it runs in the family. I spoke to my brother this evening. He’s an LAPD officer, and he couldn’t stop yelling at the apparent cowardice of VA police who were photographed taking cover while shots were fired instead of rushing the shooter.
Police are supposed to show courage, and we are supposed to share that virtue. We cannot know, but I bet there were some people in those classrooms who wished they were cops – wished they knew what to do and how to face down evil. We know there was at least one hero who did.
I agree too with Dennis Prager who said we’re too early with the grief counselors and the pictures of students walking around with their heads down. We are putting ourselves in the same bucket as the killer, unable to express anger and trying to cover it up. Self-righteous sublimation.
I wish I was there. I would have done something.
Courage is a virtue. Cowardice is a vice. It has come to the point where we have to spell that out. That too is tragic.
Cobb,
I agree with you. but I think that kind of lesson is lost on David.
Sorry David, but you keep trying to weasel on this. The people who try to do something at a time of extraordinary events are much more responsible than the folks like you who seem to feel that no one except the professionals should respond. Again, I point out that at least one professor acted on his own, and possibly saved the lives of some of his students. Should he have just patiently waited to be shot along with everyone else? Derbyshire and Blake may not be middle aged men with combat experience, and they are quite possibly overly optimistic about their abilities. However, they are at least aware that sitting back and waiting for someone to kill them is not always the best response. You have plenty of snide remarks, but no constructive suggestions for how to handle an event like this. Once again, I see that you cannot consider differing viewpoints without resorting to calling people names, or insulting them. I am not impressed.
Yes, David, I am calling you on rap. If you don’t think it’s as bad as Don Imus, you are welcome to that opinion, but you should know that a lot of thoughtful grown ups do not share your opinion. You are wlecome to enjoy rap music. I think it is as repulsive as anything Don Imus has said, and I would not wish to give a dime to either a rap singer or Imus, though I also wouldn’t call to sue either for being offensive.
Well, that is your interpretation of his post, that does not make it necessarily true. He does not write, literally, that they should be ashamed of themselves, he writes that, if he were present and would not have done anything to take out the shooter, he would have felt ashamed (of himself).
He’s not saying they should be ashamed of themselves, he is saying he would feel ashamed.
That is, of course, quite a significant difference.
BTW: I am not saying that I agree with him, although I do wish that I would act like he described in his post, in such a situation. Or like Liviu Librescu dealt with it.
Don’t we all? Don’t we all wish we would act like that? Sure, the far majority of us would not actually act like that, but, on the other hand, the far majority would hope to act like that – also out of a sense of responsibility. We all want to be courageous.
Lastly, frankly, I was talking to people about this, here in the netherlands, and some people actually, reasonable people, said what humpty dumpty said in his post.
In other words: I don’t for one second believe that only the extreme right thinks like John Derbyshire and Nathaniel Blake – some of my more progressive acqaintances said, in essence, exactly what they said.
Should those students be judged? Not in my opinion, but, yeah, I wish I would have acted more like Liviu Librescu than like the average student present.
I agree with this: it was thoughtless bravado from Blake and Derbyshire, but “the worst people in the world” is overdoing it tremendously. There are some other people, say, let me think, Bin Laden, Ahmadinejad, al-Zawahiri, who I think are far worse than Blake and Derbyshire.
No MvdG No by not critisizing the likes of Derby and other “chickenhawks” you give tacit support to their BS. What they’re doing is attacking the victims instead of the killer. Now I agree that some of the cops, by virtue of scenes shown of cable, did show too much restraint/(cowardice??) while shots were fired. Was this by plan and orders, maybe some MSM journalist will ask. A similar thought process attacked the “Mr Bean” UK sailor and Jill Carroll. This was from pundits and bloggers who don’t have a armoured robe to report from Basra…
Rudi: I am not defending them as such, I am trying to point out that, firstly, whatshisname didn’t write that the students should be ashamed of themselves, but that he would be ashamed of himself, which is quite a difference of course, and, secondly, that I think that most of us wish we would act courageous.
Having said that, I also agreed that the way they did it, put it, it was thoughtless bravado.
I mean – lets not overdo it – the world’s worst people? Again, I think that others qualify for that job.
By the way, commenter Truflo posted in another thread evidence of how brave humpty dumpty is under immense stress.
LMAO!
Question: Why do we call the teacher who placed himself between the killer and his students a hero?
Answer: Because he did something far and beyond that expected of an ordinary person, hence he is a HERO.
If the students are cowards for not attacking the killer then you can’t call a hero someone who did resist. Can’t have it both ways, sorry.
Oh, and saying that you are cowardly for not rushing a man with a loaded and regularly firing weapon is despicable, I might add.
I agree with Orson, Cobb and MvdG here. (BTW, Cobb, welcome to TMV: I checked out your blog and liked it, and look forward to reading more- the cartoons are great too).
A commenter to Nathaniel Blake’s piece made a good point IMO: kids (and teachers, for that matter) are now taught not to intervene in a fight, no matter what. It’s worth reflecting on whether or not that degree of nonviolence isn’t perhaps endandering our students and our citizenry. That doesn’t mean that the VT kids should be criticized here, it means that we should think about how we all should act and react in situations where human lives are in danger. Making split second decisions requires forethought, and we ought to be able to each contemplate how we hope that we’ll be able to act courageously in such a situation, should God forbid we ever find ourselves there. We ought to be able to have this thought process without being accused of judging those who found themselves in that situation and did whatever they had to do at the moment.
Lynx,
I disagree with the extent to which you take the thought. Your definition of hero is a good one; it also points out that the hero is someone who distinguished himself from the norm. So right there you’ve defined where most of those students fell: in the realm of normalcy, seeking self preservation. Heroes rise above that; it doesn’t necessarily follow that everyone who isn’t exceptional in one way is exceptional in the opposite way.
And you sort of contradict yourself at the end, don’t you? You say that it’s despicable to call the students cowards, but if you can’t call them cowards then by your logic you can’t call the prof a hero, can you?
I find it funny how those who hurry to attack humpty and dumpty don’t actually address what they wrote, but interprete it a bit freely and then, when people who disagree with the left’s take on this come in and point some contradictions out and make some valid points, they simply ignore it and write things as “Oh, and saying that you are cowardly for not rushing a man with a loaded and regularly firing weapon is despicable, I might add.”
It’s fine that you jump in right here Lynx, but who were you addressing? Not me, I am sure. Not Cobb, I am sure. Not Orson, and not Christine, so…
Umh…
Who?
I might just as well say “Oh, and I find it despicable to say that Israel should be destroyed and all Jews killed by the way.”
Makes no sense in the thread either.
C. Stanley, no, because the world does not divide itself into heroes and cowards, heroes and cowards are just to extremes to a spectrum. Precisly the point I am making is that the prof is a hero, and the students are just NORMAL. A coward is someone who distinguishes themself by going BELOW that which is considered normal. The students weren’t cowards, they were normal. If a student uses another as a human shield, THAT’S cowardly, running away or even freezing in fright because of a man shooting a gun, that’s perfectly nromal, even if it’s not what we all hope we’d do.
Michael, the insinuation that the students, specifically the male ones, were being cowardly by not rushing or otherwise attacking the guy seems fairly clear to me, not in this thread, but yes in the comments linked to, most especially Blake’s:
It can be summed up in, “where is your courage, aren’t you ashamed of yourself?”
I find that despicable, yes.
One liberal’s gripe becomes 2008+’s health care slogan:
[seriously]
> This is a country where guns are
> much easier to get than, say, help
> for mental disorders
“Make health care as available as guns.”
> Hey, you just described our current foreign policy!
It’s not bravado or excessive machoism, etc., ad nauseum.
There was a good ideal of idealism behind removing Hussein.
I’d be far more inclined to listen to your points, Orson, if you weren’t blatantly misconstruing what I said (at times quite explicitly–I said I actually don’t like rap, I’m just defending against overwrought and overgeneralized charges. There’s plenty of non-misogynistic rap, there’s plenty of excellent political rap, and just because an angry Black dude is yelling doesn’t mean we’re facing a threat to western civilization). Lynx nails it: the professor and students who acted heroically distinguished themselves by going above and beyond the call of duty. They deserve our praise for that–and most of us are quite capable of handing out such praise without condemning people who behaved normally. To try and articulate my position as saying its normatively preferable to freeze in front of a shooter (as opposed to my actual argument, that it is a normal action that doesn’t make one worthy of condemnation) is so wildly beyond my actual advocacy that I can’t believe it’s being offered in good faith. It’s always better to be a hero, but most folks aren’t going to be heroes, and we have no right to demand heroics of everybody. To condemn the victims for being mere humans, in the immediate aftermath of their deaths, is unjustified cruelty.
> And then make these judgments
> while your friends are dying all
> around you.
> New Rule, people who don’t know
> crap about what a soldier really
> goes through doesn’t get to
> front like they do.
I suspected you not only have seen killing and death but when you said “shot at” you meant you have experienced combat.
S.S., Grossman has a second book in addition to the book about killing, a book about combat.
http://www.killology.com/book_oncombat_contents.htm
Lynx, as I seconded, it was thoughtless bravado (one should never publish a post like that – even if one thinks like that, one should have the – nasty word – decency not to say it publicly), but the way you commented in the thread, implied that you were responding to someone, which is why I responded to you personally.
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