Modern Parenting
A, in my opinion, great post at Black Shards about the Virginia Tech shooting and, more generally, the way children are raised these days…
Few children in earlier generations would have even acknowledged the idea of assaulting their parents or grandparents. This is a modern problem, one that’s been created in the eras of “peace, love, and understanding� and the aftermath.
Whether the V.T. murderer Cho Seung-hui was one of the children this country has failed to raise correctly remains to be seen. Indeed this may never be known. But consider the trends already seen and understood by Harris County’s prosecutors.Our children are perhaps no more violent than previous generations; however, the targets of their aggression are more and more often chosen inappropriately. Parents, relatives, siblings, small neighborhood children, the elderly. All are potential victims of a generation without boundaries.
I believe that the failure of parents to properly discipline their children at a young age is responsible for a large percentage of behavioral problems experienced by school-age children. Anyone who is involved with children can see which at a glance which ones have been raised to respect authority and other people and which ones have not. Children who are rewarded for behaving well and punished for breaking the rules grow to fit into society when they become adults. Often those that are allowed to wreak havoc as children become misfits later in life. Not all misfits are bad. But some are and we’d do well to give them a sense of propriety from the very beginning rather than suffer the consequences later.
As Marc points out, whether this was the case with Cho, the shooter, remains to be seen, but I do agree with Marc that the general trend is worrisome. Children are not taught to respect their parents anymore, they are taught to consider them to be friends. When a father (or mother) says “I am my child’s best friend” I always cringe: best friend? You are your child’s best friend? You should not be your child’s best friend, you should be its parent.
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30 Responses to “Modern Parenting”
You should not be your child’s best friend, you should be its parent.
Couldn’t agree more.
We know nothing about the parents. All anyone can do is use stereotypes speculate about what Mr. Cho’s parents were like. Doing that, a Korean family who runs a dry cleaning business is probably not acting as his best friends.
The purpose of parenthood is to prepare children to be adults. It’s as simple as that. I think too many parents today loose sight of that fundamental fact. Exhibit “A” the the stupid and counterproductive “self-esteem” policies everywhere. Life is a competitive environment and kids need to learn that it is while they are still kids, otherwise problems occur.
I would like to blame the boomers for all this narcissism, but I know it would probably piss off a lot of people here.
S.D.: again: “As Marc points out, whether this was the case with Cho, the shooter, remains to be seen…”
And I agree that it is quite unlikely that his parents fit this description, but this post isn’t ‘just’ about te shooting, it is about something else, something bigger if you will – a troubling development in society: the way ‘we’ raise ‘our’ kids (I consider it to be not just an American problem: the same thing is happening in the Netherlands).
Is this conclusion based on any empirical data?
It seems like the perpetrator was mentally disturbed- he was being treated for depression- on lithium which is pretty heavy duty stuff. Also, he was the child of Chinese immigrants who were only here since 1993. I don’t think American-style parenting is to blame in this case- the tragedy was due to the man’s mental illness.
Totally ridiculous, and worse than that, predictable.
People have been complaining about those damn kids for thousands and thousands of years. My favorite example happens to come from the Bible, 2 Kings 23-24 (NIV):
“23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. “Go on up, you baldhead!” they said. “Go on up, you baldhead!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.â€?
If the situation was so urgent that a divine bear strike was phoned in (in what must’ve been an early example of a shock & awe campaign to send a message to the rest of those rapscallions), then those pesky little brats must’ve really had it coming, huh?
Look, you can choose to raise your own children in whatever way you want, but your drive-by lack of insight into the parental methods of others is more than useless. A sound-byte of parents being “friends� with their children is in no way whatsoever an indicator that those parents are somehow insufficient for the job.
Watch more South Park. Kids are kids, and maybe occasionally they deserve to be mauled by bears, but that’s the way it’s always been. Modern child-rearing practices are not some exception to the norm. Some parents are good, and some are bad, and a sound byte isn’t going to tell us the difference between them.
What the earlier generations of youths lacked was guns. The chances that the one of the little hellions could out-power their own man were slim to none until the great equalizer came along to give even the tiniest hands the power to deliver the deadliest smite.
That’s the real difference of modern society, despite the myopic complaints to the contrary.
I agree. The boomers have earned the title of the “most selfish generation”
My theory is, part of the reason we are in Iraq is that the boomers wanted their own Crusade. Sort of a WW2 jealousy.
Hell of a thing to ask a man to go die in the dessert for narcissism, but there it is.
I think this original post is pointless however for the reasons kritter pointed out.
Michael -
Anything we say along this line is mere speculation. Have you met his parents or immediate family? I do agree with you, however, that too many parents are FAR too permissive. As a school teacher, I can see the difference between those who are being raised to respect authority and those who aren’t. Respect for authority begins in the home, and it’s tough for a child who doesn’t respect his parent/parents to respect his/her teacher.
Do you all actually read what I write, or do you just skip over the parts in which I point out that this might not be related to this particular case at all, but that I find it a troubling general trend?
I mean – do you all just ignore that or what? I’ve even repeated it right here in the comment section.
Well since you can’t use corporal punishment (or get tagged by social worker as a child abuser) or yell anymore (verbal abuse can scar childrens’ psyche) all that’s left is to take away little Johnny’s Ipod. This does not always enduce an atmosphere of respect for authority. I have made my child earn some of the things she was given, and she holds it against me because it makes her an outcast. It is a terrible time to be a parent.
I think we all managed to read this
A, in my opinion, great post at Black Shards about the Virginia Tech shooting and, more generally, the way children are raised these days…
oops……blockquote in wrong place….sigh
Bad snarky….bad boy……
What absolute BS.
There are some major problems with parenting and having a super selfish generation but I don’t think homicide is necessarily one of them.
This is the homicide rate year by year since 1900.
The cyclical nature is interesting, but I don’t see any particular increase in either the up or down cycles. Course maybe it’s done by younger people now but I doubt it.
If anything the question is what will happen to the generation raised by this generation (although there is lots of anecdotal and statistical evidence that this generation is less selfish and more conservative in many ways than their parents).
This sentence confuses me: “Our children are perhaps no more violent than previous generations; however, the targets of their aggression are more and more often chosen inappropriately.”
What makes a target for violence appropriate or inappropriate?
Its just BS to blame Liberals for all the bad parenting in the country. Conservative Propaganda Crap.
Congratulations, Michael, you’ve now joined the ranks of the “I’m an old fart” club. You’re companions include Plato, Confucius and Scipio Africanus who all bitched about the youth and parenting of their day(s) – Scipio really didn’t like all that new-fangled “dancing” that was corrupting the stolid Roman manly man. My current favorite on this topic is John Rosemund whose syndicated column appears in our local paper each Sunday. You’d like him – he’s old school.
Of course, maybe with all that complaining there might actually be something to it…
kritter: while I agree that sometimes punishment is necessary, from a psychological perspective random positive reinforcement is the best form for behavioral change. This has been amply demonstrated in both animals (testing for Pavlovian responses) and humans when testing for learning time and rational behavioral change. [It also explains why gambling is so popular.]
I know it’s little consolance to a parent, but over the long run randomly rewarding good behavior while always withholding for bad behavior…and just a little negative punishment should be the best way to go.
Course I’m not a parent so who knows what I’ll think when my kid is screaming for candy at the store or being a stupid teen.
The problem is very complicated and many reasons. You have absent parents, the end of the extended family, discipline (oh, never my angel) and a total absorbtion of parents with themselves.
I don’t think working is a problem if the kids are given attention. I was lucky in that my kids had the extended family of grandparents and aunts and uncles in the area they were around alot. When I was not working I was with them. I also taught them early respect and behaving. They could go to the store with me and not throw fits or act up. I was a divorced mother until they were 12 and 9. When I remarried I got a family guy who loves kids and is so very patient. My kids adored him.
They are now grown and stable.
I think for me it was a combination of luck, family and me being there for them when I was not at work. I also was not in denial that my little angels were perfect. They were kids and human. They made mistakes and acted stupid just like everyone else. Once when my daughter was 15 she would have her best friend spend the night and they were sneaking out her window. I planted a climbing rose outside her window. end of story.
[blockquote]Do you all actually read what I write, or do you just skip over the parts in which I point out that this might not be related to this particular case at all, but that I find it a troubling general trend?
I mean – do you all just ignore that or what? I’ve even repeated it right here in the comment section.[/blockquote]It does seem like some posters have ignored that, yes, but SnarkyShark pointed out how that confusion might’ve started from your original post, and maybe they didn’t read the previous comments before they decided to opine.
It also seems like you have yourself ignored the calls for more evidence to substantiate your troubled feeling about this trend. Robert Bell specifically asked for empirical evidence. I pointed out the long history of people complaining about the kids and how things always seem to be going to hell with every generation.
So what about it? Do you find this trend so “troubling” for any good reason (i.e. do you have any evidence?), or are you simply another in a long line of naysayers stretching back to the dawn of history who love nothing more than to complain about how the kids just ain’t right these days, doggonnit, and how everyone was better back in your day, yesirree?
mikkel- I tried that also- I tried a combination of taking things away and rewarding good behavior. I tried having my child write down what she thought was a consequence of what she had done. I’m just saying different methods work with different children, but I have a very smart one with a very strong personality, who likes to argue. She’s doing well, except for the stress at home and some bad habits like procrastination, but it is still a lot of work for me, and the aforementioned methods do not work well in our house.
Um, I do think that parenting trends and this homicidal episode are not related. You may end up with spoiled, self-centered kids who don’t get it until they move out on their own, but I don’t think there’s any link between overindulgent parents and murderous rages with multi-victim casualties. That comes down to a mentally disturbed young man who was able to get a semi-automatic weapon on campus.
the rewarding system doesnt work in my house either. i do believe that in previous generations parricide was not the “norm” that it has become. fear of one’s parents goes a long way. mental illness was a contributing factor in why this happened but, i dont think it was the sole reason. parents are to an extent responsible (not legally) for the actions of their children. they defend these kids wrong doings from top to bottom and eventually the child feels he’s invincible and can do/get away with everything and these actions/behavioral patterns are carried into adulthood. i think an appropriate target for diffusing anger is some type of sports or anything that allows one to get their aggression out.
mikkel: wow that was a great link! There is no data, of course, on the targets of violence, but in any case, it doesn’t seem possible, based purely on that data, to reject stationarity.
Kim,
You and I agree a lot more on parenting issues than we do on politics! Maybe we should start a parenting blog LOL
Mikkel,
I’m glad you have the humility to realize that understanding the psychology and actually practicing it are two different things (although generally I agree with the types of approaches you mention and try to implement them). I have definitely learned (as Kim points out) that each kid has individual needs though and there’s no one size fits all approach.
CS- I’ve always told you I wasn’t a liberal on everything, LOL! I’ll take any parenting advice I can get-but I do believe we parents are stymied by the prevailing wisdom, a dumbed-down culture that worships sex and violence, and other parents who are too busy, tired or lazy to do the right thing. I would love to start a blog, if I thought I had the right solutions to it all. I do think that you have to be a parent 3/4 of the time, and a friend 1/4- as neither extreme works well in all situations.
mountaintop- The parents were not the typical American “I’ll be your best friend” types- they were hardworking immigrants, who may have not known how to deal with their son’s alienation and depression. Again, I don’t think there is any scientific link between overindulgence and aggression. There is a scientific link between prior child abuse and criminal behavior as an adult- that is actually a much better argument.
Kendall Jackson, you rule. Bear attacks. I’ll be chortleing til nightfall about that one.
I’ve noticed that ninety percent of the advice that I receive on parenting can be answered with one sentence: “Just you wait.”
The remaining ten percent of advice that I receive is sorely needed.
Just as children are in need of guidance, so am I, occasionally.
Kim,
I agree 1000% with you about the culture being a hostile environment. The oversexualization and the excessive violence make it tough (you don’t want to overprotect but sometimes you can’t bear to turn them loose in this world either). And, the permissiveness of other parents and the school authorities makes it really difficult to be a disciplinarian yourself. In our day, if you were out of line your parents weren’t the only ones who would punish you for it; if your parents weren’t around then your friends parents would yell at you and tell your parents, and the teacher would certainly not be cowed from punishing you either. And even normal rules seem too strict to our kids when their friends are allowed free reign. It ain’t easy, is it?
Just came across your blog and found it really very interesting, just keep articles like this coming!