VA Tech Shooting WAS Mass Murder
WaPo has a Blog Roundup here
Tech spokesman Larry Hincker said there would be another press briefing at 7:30 p.m.
Live-blogging from The Lede of the New York Times.
VA Tech News Conference has been going on for about 1/2 hour now. VAT President Steger and Police Chief Flinchum are taking questions. It is not yet clear if the two shooting attacks are connected. 33 are now dead in addition to the shooter, who was not carrying ID and killed himself. FBI & ATF all over the place. Large number of shell casings being collected.
The VA Tech Website has been updated and there will be a news conference at 4:30 pm.
Online Chat with the Editor of a VA Tech News Website
Washington Post: 32 Killed in Virginia Tech Shootings, At Least 24 Injured
According to the Roanoke Times, the shooting now has a Wikipedia entry.
According to NPR News, the death toll is up to 29 and still rising.
UPDATE – Roanoke Times (updated every few minutes):
At least 22 people died this morning in a shooting rampage at Virginia Tech. The shooter is dead, either by his own hand or shot by police. Details are still coming in.1:45 p.m.
As the medical examiner’s office in Roanoke prepared to conduct autopsies of all the dead, the undermanned office was waiting for reinforcements.
Nine state employees — including medical examiners, administrators and investigators — were making the trip today from Richmond, Tidewater and Northern Virginia to assist William Massello, who is the only medical examiner in the Roanoke office following the departure last year of two of his colleagues.
It was not clear when the bodies will be transported from Blacksburg to the medical examiner’s office in Roanoke, said Tracie Cooper, the district administrator.
UPDATE – AP via New York Times:
BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) — A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.
“Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions,” said university president Charles Steger. “The university is shocked and indeed horrified.”
The university reported shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building.
One student was killed in a dorm and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.
Virginia Tech’s Website
Listening to NPR – someone reported that 17-18 people have sought medical treatment for gunshot wounds and other injuries due to this event.
There were TWO shootings, at opposite ends of the campus.
At least an ATTEMPTED mass murder – reportedly several people were shot.
One suspect has been arrested but police are looking for another.
AP via MSNBC:
BLACKSBURG, Va. – A shooting at a Virginia Tech dormitory on Monday left at least one person dead, a state government official with knowledge of the case told The Associated Press. One suspect is said to be in custody, with another suspect still at large.
Meantime, officials said there were seven to eight additional casualties.
42 Responses to “VA Tech Shooting WAS Mass Murder”
Seems more and more like we are terrorizing ourselves more than by any Arab.
I’ll bet the shooters are muslim, and muhammed is part of their name.
Any takers?
Big Ed- If it were, it would be the first of how many school shootings now?
My heart is breaking. My eldest got her degree in ’99 from Tech and Ambler Johnston was her dorm.
Three young people in our small neighborhood of 35 homes are presently students there, two are freshman, and at least one is an engineering student. I’ve not heard anything …. but pray they are all safe.
Several others in the neighborhood are “alumni” (yes, I live in Va.).
And no, the shooter is probably not Arab — probably just some poor schmuck who is failing a class and or got dropped by his girlfriend.
I phoned my other daughter (freshman at George Mason University) just to hear her voice.
All in all, it’s a horrible tragedy and my heart goes out to the families involved.
@Big Ed: I really hope you are joking. My money is on an American Caucasian male in his teens or early twenties.
Maybe we should start thinking about changing our tactic with our ‘War on terror’ to stop terrorizing the American nation with fear and, I don’t know, maybe try to remember that everyone has a right to their beliefs and the fact that a person is born in a certain country with certain culture and religion doesn’t make them a terrorist.
Thanks to this below and VA Techs no gun (very similar to many Collleges and University’s) policy we created a lot of potential unarmed victims. This is a real shame. My heart goes out to these people and thier families.
The only people that obey such policies and laws are the law obiding. The criminals and nut cases do not… We need to seriously re-evaluate the rights of honest citizens to protect themselves. It could have ended this sooner. I am not saying it would have… but at least there is a chance that one victim would have been able to protect him/ her self and perhaps saved others. think about it.
“HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
By Greg Esposito 381-1675
A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.
House Bill 1572 didn’t get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.
The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill’s defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. “I’m sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly’s actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus.”
Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.
Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making “rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit … from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun.”
The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.
Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university’s authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.
In June, Tech’s governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.”
This shooting makes me truly ill. I am weepy and feel dreadfully depressed that our young people must feel no sense of safety anywhere in this strife filled world. My son and daughter-in-law lived and studied at Va. Tech. Of course this senseless violence happens everywhere. Is it becauseof America’s love for guns? Is our country being “at war” and showing if things aren’t going the way you want them to, grab weapons and start shooting? Are we too lenient on offenders? Too tough? Face it, human’s have no control over their lives and environment because too many people of unsound minds and bodies and hearts and souls can simply grab a gun and render us helpless and/or dead.
Big Ed Your an idiot; go find Laura and crawl under your Falwell rock.
the death count is actually at 22 people now, and the gunman has been killed as well.
Hey whitey, DC shootings ring a bell?
@cphilip
card carrying NRA member huh? more lenient gun laws are NOT the anwser to problems like these.
why does canada have SOOOOO much less violent crime than america(No, Im not Canadian, im American) they have very strict gun control laws. those laws make it more difficult for Criminals to aquire Guns(not impossible)
England has much less gun crime, and also very strict gun control policies(not even cops carry, at least not the typical beat cops)
Canada has more gun crime per capita than the US. Look it up.
Since gun control went into effect in England, gun crimes rose dramatically. It is true, look it up.
Big Ed is making stuff up. Look it up.
If you are going to cite statistics, they should have some reference in whatever NRA pamphlet you are referring to. Otherwise we are left with your word for it, and, frankly, you are not exactly Mr. Credibility.
Then again you look pretty good next to White Agent.
“Since gun control went into effect in England, gun crimes rose dramatically. It is true, look it up.”
So since they made guns a crime in England they are arresting people for having them? How shocking. perhaps a more relevant statistic would be to evaluate the number of firearm deaths by capita in the US, England, and Canada. For extra fun you can determine which states in the US itself have the highest fatality rate. Here’s a hint — it ain’t Oregon.
“Canada has more gun crime per capita than the US. Look it up.”
And the US has more marijuana related crimes per capita than the Netherlands — because we are stricter here than they are in Holland and arrest people for offenses they laugh at in Europe, just like they consider some gun related issues a crime in Canada that no DA in Texas would prosecute. Since the crimes committed aren’t equivalent, the comparison is invalid.
@ biged
http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/TheCaseForGunControl.html
canada gun deaths vs. number of guns per 1000 people
England had a slight jump recently in Gun crimes. but the ban has been in effect over 10 years…England has about 100 deaths from firearms a year(that includes criminals shot by the Police that do carry guns)…I couldnt find any exact stats except in 2003/2004 there were a total of 70 gun deaths in england….also many of the “gun crimes” in england are committed with fake guns that look real.
I’m at Oregon State right now, this is just so crazy, I’m really shocked to say the least.
Big Ed the dumbarse- D.C. shootings were not school shootings. Just copy cat terrorism in reaction to neocon idolization of redneck super nationalism. Kind of the same mechanism that is making vast numbers of anti-American terrorists because of Bush’s stupid knee-jerk invasion policy.
I know, you don’t understand it. That’s ok. We don’t understand you.
Jacob Marley- I don’t quote statistics. That makes you a liar.
Its not always a specific race….it seems that if you look over the years, its foreigners at least 50-60% of the time. The US is walking on eggshells around all the other countries thereby allowing more and more illegal immigrants into the US which leads to tragedies like this…If you go to the msn.com website,click on the lead VA tech story, then click to listen to derek O Dell’s experience on the story’s page, he says it was an asian dressed in a black leather coat….The country’s gotta stop allowing every and all foriegners in.
After reading some of these responses, I had to do a little quick research. Being a police officer, I know a little bit about crime. Here are some facts that I have gathered:
“* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002 that, “Since Australia’s 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%.”2
* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. “The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic,” says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. “Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted.” 3
* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.4
* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say “Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low.”5″
The person that stated Canada’s crime rates are sooo much lower than ours, has somehow been extremely mislead. The past election cycle in Canada released many of the liberal politicians that set the gun control laws there. Many of their gun control laws are being repealed because they simply do not work.
In order to lower crime, the people commiting the crimes must be punished by actually serving their prison sentences. It is a well known fact in the law enforcement community, that criminals are cowards. They do not tend to attack people who can defend themselves.
It is not fully confirmed yet, but it seems the VA Tech shooter was an Asian male.
States that have less restrictive concealed carry laws have much lower crime stats than states with heavy gun restrictions. This information is easily found on the US Department of Justice website. It is easy for many people to be mislead with different figures and stats. Stats can be made to reflect anything that anybody wants them to. Society needs to start using common sense again. When you have nothing to defend yourself with, what do you do? Can you survive for the 5 to 20 minutes it may take the police to arrive? Guns do seem to be a very good equalizer. Guns are not the problem, the criminals with them are.
God Bless the victims, their families and friends.
> Guns are not the problem, the criminals with them are.
Yep, just like nukes. (And I anticipate the slander about the Bush administration that may be coming from the Usual Suspects who consider Iran as good as or better than the USA.)
A Symptom of our “Chain Letter Society”?
Read an analysis of the influences in our “Chain Letter Society” that may be precipitating events like the tragedy at Virginia Tech and how our focus on winning and being number one may be fostering a generation of children with fully inadequate coping skills who have a misguided sense of self-worth…here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
Many will again be asking “Why�
I believe that Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine HIgh School shooting in Littleton, Colorado, answered that question in his address to the House Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.
They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:
“Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.
“The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart.
“In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA – because I don’t believe that they are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel’s murder I would be their strongest opponent.
I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy — it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today:
Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You’ve stripped away our heritage,
You’ve outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question “Why?�
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!
� Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational
systems for most of our nation’s history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs — politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.
“As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA — I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your
own heart before casting the first stone!
My daughter’s death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!�
— Posted by Al Montreuil
WHO IS THIS UNEDUCATED, UNINFORMED (dare I say PERSON) NAMED BIG ED??? Is he really 14 years old. No, I take that back…the 14 year olds that I teach are MORE informed than he is. I think the guy forget to take his medication or he slipped out of his straight jacket.
Where does he get his statistics? Canada has less gun violence and less gun deaths in spite of availability. I believe the issue has less to do with gun control or gun availability. It doesn’t matter, people are increasingly more pathological in this society. They feel increasingly powerless in this society but do nothing constructive to turn things around. Sad really, just a sad state of affairs. Rarely, do people think about how they can be productive members of society….Such egocentricity today!
I would guess the murderer is Muslim and that the authorities have not yet released the name yet, though they know who it is, because they don’t want to offend the muslim community.
My god are you Americans (judging from your comments) racists. And then you ask yourselves why the immigrants are shooting up people in your schools.
Forget about guns per capita; you guys probably have the most racist per capita… Not a good image guys.
In Japan people are afraid to go to New York because they think everyone gets shot there.
Trey and Tom – Your stats for Canada are bogus. I live across the river from Windsor Ontario and can tell you of direct personal experience. This page from the Canadian government gives rates per 100,000 people. Bsaically the US is 2 to 3 times more violent.
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm
I won’t go into Texas statistics, Kinky Friedman said it all.
So Nigel if the US had no racists would all of our schools be safe? I think that is a rather broad generalization. Would we be safer if there were no guns period? No we would not, because there will always be people whos thought process is as out of whack as this guy in Virginia, and if he hadnt had a gun he might have decided to make explosives, or started a fire or used a car or, or, or …………… there will always be an or. If we destroyed all guns tomorrow there would still be killings. People would find a way to kill other people be it with a gun, knife, stick, car or whatever is at hand. I have no answer for you as to how to stop people from killing other people. What I do know is that blaming an inanimate object is surely not it.
Nigel – Americans don’t want to eat meat from Hong Kong for fear that it is a chopped up dog…..so what’s your (their)point about New York…..they obviously haven’t been there. And further more don’t come here…..we probably don’t want you here. Just have fun over there serving our troops at and around one of the many military bases on that American commonwealth you call a country.
And one other thing……when there is one sect of people that continually go out of their way to terrorize your people on a daily basis, it gets kind of hard to think that its not a muslim terrorist. And at this point, we’re rooting for it to be a terrorist.
Oh and to the guy who wants a bunch of 18 – 22 year old kids on a college campus to have guns to defend themselves……..did you ever go to college??? If you did, you must have attended a liberal arts college…..the last thing this country needs is 15000 drunk college age kids with guns on a friday night. Get a clue…..I’m the last person to support gun control laws, but cmon……on a college campus??? There would be 5,000 dead a year at Michigan State alone.
32 americans? Yawn, the more the better I say. What is all this fuss about? Americans are the most intimidating, aggressive, racist, self absorbed individuals on the planet, does anyone care about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis killed by your country the past few years? For Bush to get in a second term, let alone in the first instance, illustrates how uneducated and disconnected people are there. You people have no humanity, no conscience. I am so fortunate I don’t live there.
I’m an “Asian” United States male. So as the person who apparently has the most educated outlook here, allow me to say a few things. What if the shooter was born and raised in the USA? Does it matter that he was asian looking? Does it make Americans racists to say he was Asian? No. The media is looking to legally identify who the person was before the police will release the name. Are US Americans racist? Sure, some are. But unfortunately many European and Asian countries are far more racist. I so often see the sad belief that someone is part of the “pure” race. I’m 1/2 Korean, part German, Irish, Scottish, and French (I must really hate myself!). Most US Americans are consistantly in the process of reforming their ideals of acceptance. We generally tend to love other countries, not just for economics, but for history. It’s where we stem from. How could we not like Poland if so many of us are Polish? The USA is still a melting pot and its unfortunate that some people can be such bigots and not realize that we are just a large mixed voice with a lot of money. As far as the problems all with the shootings; When you don’t take care of your children, you children will choose whatever path they can find. Yes many US Americans are lazy…in their parenting skills. We leave it up to our government to educate our kids in a poorly structured school system when we should be educating them at home also in a fatherly/motherly manner instead of handing them more video games.
Anyone seen exactly who the victms were? It appears to me that this was a racist attact against European Americans.
With the tragic shooting in Virginia yesterday, the fact is this rampage could have ended in two minutes if ordinary citizens were allowed to carry a firearm on their person at all times (yes, even on universities).
The shootings in Utah and Manhattan were prime examples and validations of the right of an ordinary citizen to keep and bear arms. As you know, off duty officers ended both those conflicts in a short time. Unfortunately, ordinary citizens CANNOT cary a firearm onto a university, and therefore EVERY single one of those students and faculty were left at the mercy of a lunatic with two guns.
In conclusion, the government bears responsibility for the high death toll on the Virginia Tech campus. The reason we didn’t have 30 people dead in Utah and Manhattan was because a law abiding citizen was there to kill the lunatic.
> Japan
And the Euro-Trash dare call the USA the most racist nation there is? *snicker* You go there, gaijin. You look here, too, gaijin.
http://www.kanai.net/weblog/archive/2003/01/07/10h34m34s
http://www.debito.org/index.php/?p=192
http://japanfocus.org/products/details/2386
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=14169
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4671687.stm
http://www.dyske.com/index.php?view_id=677
i personally dont support his choice of weaponry, he should have used a .357 or something, get some BOOM HEADHOTS.
no but in all seriousness, go him. he’s gonna be in the record books, and he’s gonna be famous. i think i’ll make a t-shirt with his face on it, and run through campus shouting “YOU ALL GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED!!!!”
As a student as ASU I am surprised to find a conflict about guns. If you realize 33 people lay dead. 32 who had no idea what was going to happen when they got up that morning! 33 families are torn apart. Friends will never again get to talk, see, and hear from those people again. And all you worry about is guns. Guns aren’t always the problem. There are many reports that the shooter needed help, and was depressed. I am disgusted that the first thing to enter peoples mind is that of racism. Who care what the color of the skin, or their religious belief, they were disturbed and needed help! Instead of criticizing we should be uniting and try to prevent further attacks! Think about that when you blame everyone else. No one reached out to this kid. No one made the effort. Next time it could be you or your kids!
In the Canadian province of Saskatchewan the murder rate is 4.5 per hundred thousand. The city of Regina is considered the most dangerous in the country. I hear that Washington, DC has a rate ten times ours. Is this true?
Trey “* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002 that, “Since Australia’s 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%.�2
I’ve seen these statistics quoted before, no-one seems to quote a source other than a newspaper article.
Here are some statistics from the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics [NSW is the most populated state of Australia]:
From January 1997 to December 2006 these are the trends in the following crimes;
Murder Down -2.40%
Assault – Not domestic violence related Up 2.00%
Assault – Domestic violence related Up 5.30%
Robbery without a weapon Down -3.20%
Robbery with a firearm Down -8.50%
Robbery with a weapon not a firearm Down -5.50%
Break and enter – dwelling Down -5.50%
Break and enter – non-dwelling Down -5.60%
And some more;
Abduction and kidnapping Stable **
Attempted murder Down -4.20%
Indecent assault, other sexual offences Stable **
Motor vehicle theft Down -7.20%
Prohibited and regulated weapons offences Up 6.40%
Sexual assault Up 1.00%
Steal from motor vehicle Down -2.30%
Steal from retail store Down -2.00%
Source: NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics. There’s a neat little tool that generates Excel files for you. You can choose what types of criminal acts to measure and over which period. I choose the period 1996-2006.
This is pretty pathetic racism in here, saying the killer was muslim?
no wonder the USA ranked lowest of any developed nation in how it views the outside world. 78% of US residents had a negative view on other people around the world.
The Biggest problem in the USA isn’t guns. It’s bigotry and racism.
also, I’d like to add that last year, in my city of 380,000 people, there were a total of 10 murders.. 2 by gun. 1 by poison. 2 by fire. 1 by strangulation. and 4 by knives.
It is amazing how canadians seem to be able to live in peace with the neighbour that doesn’t look like us, but the USA is afraid to welcome peopl.