And, again, those who do not serve in the military can criticize those who do serve.

Certainly and you can yell at your TV… scream at the screen… tell your team what they should do and how they should play. Unfortunately, your opinion in both cases will (as they should) receive the same reverent respect and consideration… Absolutely NONE!

In your initial “Monty Python Should Stay Out of Politicsâ€? rate implied and infered ‘facts’ to the Terry Jones OpEd that just weren’t there… When called on this you just walked (sic) away from the thread that you started instead of responding / replying / debating a discussion that you started.

You continue to rewrite and post anew the same Brit Bashing crap used in your previous posts but refuse to respectfully debate the issues.

Now… you’re playing an ‘apples to oranges’ and ‘oh, you silly liberals’ crap to distract and confuse your flawed argument.

Michael, You seem to be quite emotionally invested in this issue and like many of us emotional involved in a debate would probably benefit by backing-off; but, again like most of us, you will probably just get madder and less civil instead.

Regards,
Steve

You can gaze out the window get mad and get madder,
throw your hands in the air, say “What does it matter?”
but it don’t do no good to get angry,
so help me I know

For a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter.
You become your own prisoner as you watch yourself sit there
wrapped up in a trap of your very own
chain of sorrow.

Bruised Orange John Prine

And, again, those who do not serve in the military can criticize those who do serve. Don’t give me that crap. You can repeat and repeat, and repeat it, but that doesn’t make it more true. The military serves the people, the people don’t serve the military.

Marlowe: there certainly is a bigger problem in British society, but I am happy that some of our commenters show that if the far left takes over America, America will have the same problem very soon.

Where is the outrage at UK military command for allow a second kidnapping of their soldiers. A 20 year old sailor is less guilty of anything compared to a command that didn’t plan for this situation after it happened before. Like our miltary, why haven’t any senior UK officers stepped down or admitted to gross negligence. Instead we have a 20 year old smeared with the “Mr Bean” insult.

hahaha….Reminds me of those fat arsed “militia” wackos during the 90s; “we gonna purtect fredum”….uh huh. Fruckwads Unite.

Gee I sure am tired of listening to the leader of the 1st verbose garbage detail rummaging thru the garbage to find stuff to throw at the real elitists troops of the 101st keyboardists who are on the front lines fighting the war.

If you apologize mabey we will let you join the “Real front line troops.” Instead of hanging out with the Sarge and Sad Sack.

She’ll probably be defended by the Left, who defends the sailors now but would be critical of them if they were engaging the Iranians instead (that is, with weapons) or pounding the hell out of terrorists in Basra.

Maybe she (or the lefties) will have Nanci Pelosi deliver a goodwill message to Ahmadinnerjacket if Pelosi and Lantos follow through with their idea of going to Iran now that they have enjoyed the exercise of “Democratic foreign policy” in Syria. I can’t wait to see the photos of Pelosi and Lantos with the Iranian president. Maybe on the way back they can visit Chavez and Castro, too.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=pelosi+lantos+iran

God, this just is depressing. The description of the responses of the British public as a whole in the media have suggested this is having a serious effect. There was just silence for the longest while.

I think people are stupified by it. There are some who blame the sailors…but most seem to see it having larger significance.

It is sort of like the Suez crisis in the 1950s…the incident is not important in itself, except that it reveals something fundamentally lacking in Great Britain…a difference between the image and the reality of Britain.

It is amazing that there have been no resignations yet at the MoD!

The Admiralty clearly has no shame…

I suspect that bond was lacking in this case.

I do feel sad for Batchelor…he clearly realizes he should not have spoken to the press. He will be hounded about this by other servicemen, I am sure.

Faye Turney still does not seem to understand the significance of what happened…and is keeping the doll the Iranian president gave her as a present for her daughter.

She has observed that she was just doing her job as a boat driver. Maybe that is it…this was just a job for her, like flipping burgers.

The Royal Navy is ultimately to blame here. It is obvious there is no training whatsover here… They have become McDonald’s at Sea for the new generation.

Marlowe: how to do something about this?

also: it says a lot that servicemen criticize their colleagues quite ruthlessly (which should give our local liberal friends Steve and Rudi food for thought).

I thought Entropy made some particularly good points in posts here at TMV, drawing upon his training – in re: the difference between being manipulated for propaganda, and tortured for information.

But then I came upon the website of the sailors in the USS Pueblo incident. That was the US ship seized by the North Koreans in the 60s.
Go to….http://www.usspueblo.org/

The incidents were very similar, only the crew of the Pueblo were subject to far more violence (one crewman was killed in the initial boarding …physical torture was commonplace).

However, in the case of the Pueblo the crew were very aware that they were being filmed by the North Koreans for propaganda. Thus, they decided to ruin EVERY propaganda photo/film taken of them…in every picture, every crewman would be somehow holding their middle finger erect (upon everntually being questioned by the Koreans…they said this was a Hawaiian Good Luck Sign!!!)

Pictures of this are at the site, and elsewhere on the NET.

Eventually the Koreans realized–reading descriptions in the western press–what the significance of an erect middle finger meant. The Pueblo crew was beaten, non-stop, for weeks after the discovery.

Yet the men of the Pueblo expected this response, and decided to do so nonetheless: “…most of us realized that our zeal to ruin their propaganda would come back to haunt us.”

But the contrast between the sailors of the Pueblo – operating without training in resistance, as with the Cornwall sailors and marines – and the sailors/marines here is striking. All the moreso that the Pueblo faced BOTH manipulation and physical tortures…and had good reason to expect death at any moment.

Rudy calls you on your ‘all over the board’ arguments’ and instead of replying to the point he makes you’re trying to sell us on your newly found aversion to apples and oranges.

Maybe a few years of military (or other) service to the country of your choice would be helpful.

When given 12 month 15 month unlimited mandatory service young people like yourself usually develop a more accurate view of the big picture… it might add a little realism to your view of the world… a little honor.

This is the second time you tried a rhetorical trick, in one single thread.

I don’t know what’s more depressing: That a Python alum is so far gone into moral relativism as to smear his nation’s troops as they’re held hostage by a rogue regime, or that so many of his countrymen (if the comments on his article are any guide) have joined him there.�

Despicable.

Now you smear and attack the British troops, Despicable again?

In these cases, the passage of time serves better than any attempted defense.

Can citizens criticize soldiers? Sure we can.

The military serves the people, the people don’t serve the military.

The military stands for honor, respect. The military should defend one’s country.

If the military or individual soldiers fail to live up to that one can critize them.