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	<title>Comments on: Gingrich and the Ghetto</title>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70219</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70219</guid>
		<description>There is also a connection with the Ghetto reference that most don&#039;t get or aren&#039;t aware of that Newt as a history prof would know. Many Jewish people would live for generations in a Ghetto and they would never learn the native language, like polish. This is not to say that the Jewish people, who were fully 10% of the pre-war Polish population, didn&#039;t generally speak Polish. Rather that it was not uncommon to have someone who didn&#039;t and the general population of Poland and many Jews considered themselves not as Polish, but rather just &quot;living&quot; in Poland. Viewed under that light I think his statements make sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also a connection with the Ghetto reference that most don&#8217;t get or aren&#8217;t aware of that Newt as a history prof would know. Many Jewish people would live for generations in a Ghetto and they would never learn the native language, like polish. This is not to say that the Jewish people, who were fully 10% of the pre-war Polish population, didn&#8217;t generally speak Polish. Rather that it was not uncommon to have someone who didn&#8217;t and the general population of Poland and many Jews considered themselves not as Polish, but rather just &#8220;living&#8221; in Poland. Viewed under that light I think his statements make sense.</p>
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		<title>By: NitrogenNick</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70213</link>
		<dc:creator>NitrogenNick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70213</guid>
		<description>Umm, we can continue to harp on the evils of bilingual education, multiculturalism, etc., or we can actually stop to look at the data.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.prb.org/Template.cfm?Section=PRB&amp;template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&amp;ContentID=13836&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Population Reference Bureau:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;But while nearly 50 million Americans spoke a language other than English at home in 2004â€”nearly one-fifth of all U.S. residents age 5 or olderâ€”what the debate misses is that today&#039;s immigrants are on average making the transition to speaking English more quickly than immigrants at any other time in U.S. history.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Adult immigrants themselves are not learning English.  They almost never have, throughout our history.  But the children of immigrants, the ones who we actually educate, are, so fears of an entrenched Spanish-only community are unfounded, despite all mongering to the contrary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm, we can continue to harp on the evils of bilingual education, multiculturalism, etc., or we can actually stop to look at the data.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.prb.org/Template.cfm?Section=PRB&amp;template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&amp;ContentID=13836" rel="nofollow">Population Reference Bureau:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>But while nearly 50 million Americans spoke a language other than English at home in 2004â€”nearly one-fifth of all U.S. residents age 5 or olderâ€”what the debate misses is that today&#8217;s immigrants are on average making the transition to speaking English more quickly than immigrants at any other time in U.S. history.</p></blockquote>
<p>Adult immigrants themselves are not learning English.  They almost never have, throughout our history.  But the children of immigrants, the ones who we actually educate, are, so fears of an entrenched Spanish-only community are unfounded, despite all mongering to the contrary.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Joe Mccarthy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70197</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Joe Mccarthy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70197</guid>
		<description>newtie knows how to play to the base...he throws in this crap to show the ones he is courting that he too is a racist good ole boy, even if in reality, he is not.

i have no prob with english immersion....i do have a prob with newtie

saying that, i hope he wins the repug nomination....cuz he can always be counted on to stick his big foot into his even bigger mouth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>newtie knows how to play to the base&#8230;he throws in this crap to show the ones he is courting that he too is a racist good ole boy, even if in reality, he is not.</p>
<p>i have no prob with english immersion&#8230;.i do have a prob with newtie</p>
<p>saying that, i hope he wins the repug nomination&#8230;.cuz he can always be counted on to stick his big foot into his even bigger mouth</p>
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		<title>By: G. Weightman</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70192</link>
		<dc:creator>G. Weightman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70192</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...but definitely the kind of guy who drops the N-bomb after looking over both shoulders and probably smiled once or twice about Katrina.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Any evidence to support this speculation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;but definitely the kind of guy who drops the N-bomb after looking over both shoulders and probably smiled once or twice about Katrina.</p></blockquote>
<p>Any evidence to support this speculation?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70170</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70170</guid>
		<description>Newt is right about what he said.  Of course we shouldn&#039;t coddle immigrants into never having to learn english.  But he is also a flaming bigot, we all know this, and it comes out often in his speeches.   Just little touches like this, and the politcal right is rife with guys like him.   Not hood wearing Klan members or anything, but definitely the kind of guy who drops the N-bomb after looking over both shoulders and probably smiled once or twice about Katrina.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newt is right about what he said.  Of course we shouldn&#8217;t coddle immigrants into never having to learn english.  But he is also a flaming bigot, we all know this, and it comes out often in his speeches.   Just little touches like this, and the politcal right is rife with guys like him.   Not hood wearing Klan members or anything, but definitely the kind of guy who drops the N-bomb after looking over both shoulders and probably smiled once or twice about Katrina.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael van der GaliÃ«n</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70169</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der GaliÃ«n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70169</guid>
		<description>I was just thinking...
&lt;blockquote&gt;As the snow flies
On a cold and gray chicago mornin
A poor little baby Jew is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
cause if theres one thing that she dont need
Its another Jewish child to teach
In the ghetto

People, dont you understand
The child needs a helping hand
Or he&#039;ll grow to be an bad-english-speaking young man some day
Take a look at you and me,
Are we too blind to see,
Do we simply turn our heads
And look the other way

Well the world turns
And a hungry Jewish boy with a runny nose
Plays in the street as the cold wind blows
In the ghetto

ETC.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Okay, lousy joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just thinking&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>As the snow flies<br />
On a cold and gray chicago mornin<br />
A poor little baby Jew is born<br />
In the ghetto<br />
And his mama cries<br />
cause if theres one thing that she dont need<br />
Its another Jewish child to teach<br />
In the ghetto</p>
<p>People, dont you understand<br />
The child needs a helping hand<br />
Or he&#8217;ll grow to be an bad-english-speaking young man some day<br />
Take a look at you and me,<br />
Are we too blind to see,<br />
Do we simply turn our heads<br />
And look the other way</p>
<p>Well the world turns<br />
And a hungry Jewish boy with a runny nose<br />
Plays in the street as the cold wind blows<br />
In the ghetto</p>
<p>ETC.</p></blockquote>
<p>Okay, lousy joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynx</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70152</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70152</guid>
		<description>Marlowecan I lived in San Francisco when ebonics rose to stardom and even my uber-liberal teachers mostly thought it was BS (of course they didn&#039;t say it much, since common sense was mostly prohibited within school property). That said I never saw ebonics more savaged than it was by black comedians. I think it must have been the idea of one guy or a few people and became infamous because of it&#039;s level of stupidity. I highly doubt that virtually anyone ever took it seriously.

As for not imitating the multi-cultural Europe, as a CURRENT resident of one of the favorite destinations, Spain, I must energetically AGREE. Please DON&#039;T make our mistake. One of the good things about how harsh America is, is the fact that if forces you to adapt, to rise to the challenge. Our social services are so strong that it encourages the lazy and non-integration. It wasn&#039;t a problem before, since people had a work-ethic and a higher standard than bare minimum, but with the avalanche of illegals, it&#039;s becoming a serious issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marlowecan I lived in San Francisco when ebonics rose to stardom and even my uber-liberal teachers mostly thought it was BS (of course they didn&#8217;t say it much, since common sense was mostly prohibited within school property). That said I never saw ebonics more savaged than it was by black comedians. I think it must have been the idea of one guy or a few people and became infamous because of it&#8217;s level of stupidity. I highly doubt that virtually anyone ever took it seriously.</p>
<p>As for not imitating the multi-cultural Europe, as a CURRENT resident of one of the favorite destinations, Spain, I must energetically AGREE. Please DON&#8217;T make our mistake. One of the good things about how harsh America is, is the fact that if forces you to adapt, to rise to the challenge. Our social services are so strong that it encourages the lazy and non-integration. It wasn&#8217;t a problem before, since people had a work-ethic and a higher standard than bare minimum, but with the avalanche of illegals, it&#8217;s becoming a serious issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael van der GaliÃ«n</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70151</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der GaliÃ«n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70151</guid>
		<description>Immigrants should, in my humble opinion, be forced to learn English. At the end of the course, they have to take a test, they won&#039;t get a permanent licence to say, as long as they don&#039;t pass this basic knowledge test. 

That&#039;s how it is done in the Netherlands, and that&#039;s how it should be done imo: when you move to a country, you should learn the language of the majority. If you don&#039;t want to, you should not come. It is that simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Immigrants should, in my humble opinion, be forced to learn English. At the end of the course, they have to take a test, they won&#8217;t get a permanent licence to say, as long as they don&#8217;t pass this basic knowledge test. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s how it is done in the Netherlands, and that&#8217;s how it should be done imo: when you move to a country, you should learn the language of the majority. If you don&#8217;t want to, you should not come. It is that simple.</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70145</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70145</guid>
		<description>It might be useful to recall the whole &quot;ebonics&quot; debate from a few years back here.

It was pumped up by academics in the Bay area back in the 1990s as an alternate English for African American youth. 

However, Black leaders savaged the idea, and it remains largely an academic fantasy to this day.  After all, look at the remarkable rhetorical skills of numerous Black leaders -- Martin Luther King being a striking example, Jesse Jackson (folks might not like him, but the man can definitely speak well) -- in standard English. 

I remember Bill Cosby in particular, being brutal in beating down ebonics.  As he noted, realistically African American kids would graduate with a degree in ebonics...and despite the law or the rulings of schoolboards...everyone would know it meant they couldn&#039;t read and write English.  No one would hire a Black kid with ebonics on his transcript.

I don&#039;t think America wants to replicate the ghettoes of multicultural Europe...with every ethnic group largely confined in their own swathes of cities...and little common ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might be useful to recall the whole &#8220;ebonics&#8221; debate from a few years back here.</p>
<p>It was pumped up by academics in the Bay area back in the 1990s as an alternate English for African American youth. </p>
<p>However, Black leaders savaged the idea, and it remains largely an academic fantasy to this day.  After all, look at the remarkable rhetorical skills of numerous Black leaders &#8212; Martin Luther King being a striking example, Jesse Jackson (folks might not like him, but the man can definitely speak well) &#8212; in standard English. </p>
<p>I remember Bill Cosby in particular, being brutal in beating down ebonics.  As he noted, realistically African American kids would graduate with a degree in ebonics&#8230;and despite the law or the rulings of schoolboards&#8230;everyone would know it meant they couldn&#8217;t read and write English.  No one would hire a Black kid with ebonics on his transcript.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think America wants to replicate the ghettoes of multicultural Europe&#8230;with every ethnic group largely confined in their own swathes of cities&#8230;and little common ground.</p>
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		<title>By: White Agent</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70144</link>
		<dc:creator>White Agent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70144</guid>
		<description>I cannot believe that Gingrich suggested that learning other languages should be abolished. If he did then what can I say? He would then be an absolute idiot.  

There is a larger question here though, and, I would say that question is immigration and the effect that massive illegal immigration has on the our national culture, politics, and, prosperity. In my opinion we are trying to absorb far too many illegal aliens and it is having a very negative affect on our country. This is an invasion from our neighbors to the south and it must be stopped. The numbers are growing so large that Hispanics are becoming embolden. They even publicly threaten us in an attempt to bully us into acceptance by intimidation. This must stop. I see this as a greater threat than the middle east.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot believe that Gingrich suggested that learning other languages should be abolished. If he did then what can I say? He would then be an absolute idiot.  </p>
<p>There is a larger question here though, and, I would say that question is immigration and the effect that massive illegal immigration has on the our national culture, politics, and, prosperity. In my opinion we are trying to absorb far too many illegal aliens and it is having a very negative affect on our country. This is an invasion from our neighbors to the south and it must be stopped. The numbers are growing so large that Hispanics are becoming embolden. They even publicly threaten us in an attempt to bully us into acceptance by intimidation. This must stop. I see this as a greater threat than the middle east.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynx</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70139</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70139</guid>
		<description>Now, usually I&#039;d be the last person defending Newt, but I think he merits some defense here. No, his choice of words is not the best one, but I&#039;m sick and tired of bad word choices becoming more important than the message that they attempt to convey.

As has already been pointed out, he is in no way suggesting that no language other than English is to be taught. He&#039;s obviously referring to programs for new immigrants, not foreign language courses for native English speakers.


An additional thing is the &quot;ghetto&quot; reference. I personally think it&#039;s blindingly obvious that he&#039;s trying to equate knowledge of English with success in the US, and likewise lack of knowledge of English with failure. If you think that insinuating that ending up in the ghetto is failing is racist or evil, well I have nothing to say, as I really don&#039;t know how to deal with certain levels of PC. The fact is that learning proper English is essential to success in America. That counts for native born Americans as well. Does speaking an English that isn&#039;t standard make you stupid or dishonest? No, of course not, but your level of education will be questioned, and your life will be harder. When I was in school most Asian families understood this, going as far sometimes as to prohibit their kids from speaking Chinese in the home, in order for them to adapt faster. The result was a much faster assimilation of Chinese immigrants than other immigrants, despite the vastly greater difference in culture and language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, usually I&#8217;d be the last person defending Newt, but I think he merits some defense here. No, his choice of words is not the best one, but I&#8217;m sick and tired of bad word choices becoming more important than the message that they attempt to convey.</p>
<p>As has already been pointed out, he is in no way suggesting that no language other than English is to be taught. He&#8217;s obviously referring to programs for new immigrants, not foreign language courses for native English speakers.</p>
<p>An additional thing is the &#8220;ghetto&#8221; reference. I personally think it&#8217;s blindingly obvious that he&#8217;s trying to equate knowledge of English with success in the US, and likewise lack of knowledge of English with failure. If you think that insinuating that ending up in the ghetto is failing is racist or evil, well I have nothing to say, as I really don&#8217;t know how to deal with certain levels of PC. The fact is that learning proper English is essential to success in America. That counts for native born Americans as well. Does speaking an English that isn&#8217;t standard make you stupid or dishonest? No, of course not, but your level of education will be questioned, and your life will be harder. When I was in school most Asian families understood this, going as far sometimes as to prohibit their kids from speaking Chinese in the home, in order for them to adapt faster. The result was a much faster assimilation of Chinese immigrants than other immigrants, despite the vastly greater difference in culture and language.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashen Shard</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70127</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashen Shard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70127</guid>
		<description>I agree wholly that there needs to be some program available for teaching immigrants English.  However, where is the funding for such a program going to come from?  Also, assuming that we are able to establish and fund an effective system for teaching immigrants English, one must also remember the fact that they are not all going to be able to grasp English enough to become good speakers.  Some people are just not capable of effectively learning another language, it does not matter who you are.  Also, I know that many immigrants are embarrassed that they are unable to learn the language even though they may have been here over a decade.  It must also be realized that historically in this country assimilation does not necessarily happen with those who immigrate here but to the next generation.  It is therefore a generational process rather than the instant one we would like.

The ghetto reference though I think was either highly ignorant, or truly racist.  In this country, it is the fault of pro-white policy of government.  If you look at the flight from the cities that was most obvious right after WWII, the government subsidized home loans for whites but typically did not provide the same for minorities.  So when Gingrich refers to the &#039;language of the ghetto&#039; he is referring to the language of non-whites in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wholly that there needs to be some program available for teaching immigrants English.  However, where is the funding for such a program going to come from?  Also, assuming that we are able to establish and fund an effective system for teaching immigrants English, one must also remember the fact that they are not all going to be able to grasp English enough to become good speakers.  Some people are just not capable of effectively learning another language, it does not matter who you are.  Also, I know that many immigrants are embarrassed that they are unable to learn the language even though they may have been here over a decade.  It must also be realized that historically in this country assimilation does not necessarily happen with those who immigrate here but to the next generation.  It is therefore a generational process rather than the instant one we would like.</p>
<p>The ghetto reference though I think was either highly ignorant, or truly racist.  In this country, it is the fault of pro-white policy of government.  If you look at the flight from the cities that was most obvious right after WWII, the government subsidized home loans for whites but typically did not provide the same for minorities.  So when Gingrich refers to the &#8216;language of the ghetto&#8217; he is referring to the language of non-whites in general.</p>
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		<title>By: casualobserver</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70117</link>
		<dc:creator>casualobserver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70117</guid>
		<description>Well said, carpeicthus.

And as long as the author gets to indulge in pure speculation, I should be able to as well.........perhaps &quot;ghetto&quot; is simply referring to the antithesis of assimilation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, carpeicthus.</p>
<p>And as long as the author gets to indulge in pure speculation, I should be able to as well&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;perhaps &#8220;ghetto&#8221; is simply referring to the antithesis of assimilation.</p>
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		<title>By: carpeicthus</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-70113</link>
		<dc:creator>carpeicthus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 18:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/history/11964/gingrich-and-the-ghetto/#comment-70113</guid>
		<description>Not that I like defending Newt, but English immersion doesn&#039;t mean no foreign language departments. It means taking immigrants and teaching them in English, not having, say, a Math class taught in Spanish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that I like defending Newt, but English immersion doesn&#8217;t mean no foreign language departments. It means taking immigrants and teaching them in English, not having, say, a Math class taught in Spanish.</p>
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