After two World Wars, in turn following centuries of warring for a variety of reasons, one major reason for establishing the EU was to create a war-less zone. The US has fought most of its wars outside its borders and lacks the historic impact of wars that descend where you live. It’s one thing to fear for your soldiers, it’s another to fear for your children as bombs burst on your house.
The impact of their different collective memory has to be acknowledged, I think. Having experienced one war up close and personal, I’m sure the experience influences my caution about letting the dogs of war loose.

Then came Iraq, and the US, not only did not heed warnings, but were outraged that all of Europe didn’t fall into step with us. Remember Freedon Fries?

Now that the those opposing the war feel vindicated, there is a bit of revenge gloating going on. But most of all, the contacts I have in Europe express a genuine fear of the effects of the Iraq war. Since it was the US who insisted on it, it’s not too far fetched that their fear would turn into an angry anti-US sentiment.

The incompetence of the Proconsul Days was breathtaking, though the State Dept people who might have at least UNDERSTOOD what was going on had been fired along with Gen. Barker just days after Baghdad fell.

No local expertise was required, as Rumsfeld convinced Bush/Cheney that he needed “fresh thinking” and fired the State experts and any other Arabists in order to completely take control of the ensuing debacle.

Rumsfeld is/was the worst Secretary of Defense the US has ever had, and I hope that historians bury him with that as his epitaph.

In the long run, I don’t think we need to worry about this anti-American sentiment, because it really hangs on anti-Bush sentiment.

Do you find Bush’s mindset to be that Unamerican?

everytime we germans get told that we should have learned something from the past

and yes we did

war is not good

Just remember, It also took a war to stop Hitler, was that war wrong as well?

In the long run, I don’t think we need to worry about this anti-American sentiment, because it really hangs on anti-Bush sentiment. Even most of the Republican candidates for 2008 are must less unilaterally minded. The election will probably result in a fairly significant policy shift for the US, regardless of which party wins. That will take a lot of the bluster out of the anti-US movement.

Iran on the other hand, will continue to the ruled by pretty much the exact same group of people for the foreseeable future, which hopefully means they will be receiving a healthy dose of international outrage starting maybe 2009.

My FSO pal summed Rumsfeld up—-a total inside-the-Beltway player with no interest in nor understanding of the Middle East. A complete money and power machine. And GWB entrusted his presidency to this very vertically-challenged [about 5'6"] strutting martinet with an attitude [Saddam let him cool his heels for an hour in ’83 and the dwarf wanted payback.

So Sam has a point—though not even Rumsfeld and Cheney are as venal as sock-puppet for Putin Schroeder or Oil-for-Food benefactor Chirac. These guys are simple pay-to-play power jockeys.

On further reflection and after considering your argument, I’m forced to concede the point.

“Stupid� hit the nail on the head.

I was trying for formulate a new explanation that equated German sentiment to the U.S. with penis envy, but stupid did the same job much more eloquently.

When our Bavarian friend returns to the thread, we’ll give a good old fashion American (verbal) slap up side his head.

You are correct about the “collective impulse” driving a relatively homogeneous society like the Germans. The French are a bit lacking in the same, but match the world in the chauvinism department.

The problem hinges a great deal on the generally leftist pitch of the international press, from the IHT, whose diplomatic editor was my boss, to Der Spiegel and Le Monde and the Guardian. They are all deeply invested in Marxian ideology and have an instinctive detestation of the USA left over from the Cold War Days when Euro-Communism was being touted from the newsrooms and editorial boards inferentially and implicitly throughout the continent.

The fact that the Euro birth rate is below replacement except in the Christian enclaves remaining, and the inability to manage and assimilate hordes of immigrants who detest European civilization both do not bode well for the political elites looking down their noses at the USA.

I really don’t think “stupid� is the correct term.

Germans (like most Europeans) see themselves as part of the “collective�. There is precious little in their history that glamorized or rewarded the individualism so prevalent here in the U.S.

This is the collection of murderous dunces who elected Hitler to power and foisted two world wars on the 20th century.

The whole country is stuck on stupid.

Americans who have visited Germany say the older, WWII generation seems friendly towards Americans, while the younger generation–Germany’s equivalent of the ‘baby boomers’–is not. Ironically, the latter is much more likely to be fluent in English than the former.

Which leads to some interesting situations. I know a couple who visited Germany in the 80′s and were trying to find their way around. The young people proved very unhelpful, and the older people helpful but unable to communicate effectively. One elderly German women kept smiling and giving them chocolates in answer to their questions, but couldn’t tell them which train to catch!

I believe they finally got directions from an American soldier. But at least they weren’t spit on, like I’ve heard from others who’ve visited Germany.

“…….he has no right to rule over so many people that didn’t vote for him.�

Ah, yes, yes he does. That’s what elections are for. Part of the social contract we agree to here in the U.S. is that once someone is elected, he “rules� until someone else is elected.

As to Lessons Learned, perhaps a more accurate lesson would be:

Losing a war is not good.

Fortunately, the portion of Germany that ended up under U.S. control was rebuilt and nurtured to form a non-aggressive, productive, open society.

This is the same goal Bush sought for Iraq when he stated that it was time to “change the dynamic� in the Mideast.

Oh, you’re welcome.

everytime we germans get told that we should have learned something from the past

and yes we did

war is not good

maybe our politicians dont see it that way, but germany is the most peace loving country in the world

we dont want to happen something like this again

so stop war

these stupid wars have an impact on the whole world

and who is fighting wars ever since the second world war ended?

ONLY THE US

so think about that

im not for any iranian guy, i just dont want any more war.. and yes… its in the hand of our mighty worldruler georgi

And say what you will about Irag and Afghanistan, but war by proxy in another country is preferable to direct conflict on our shores.

And when it’s the right war (Afghanistan), the country agrees.