Comments on: The Soviet Union of Venezuela http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Mon, 28 May 2012 01:10:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: ew01 http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-68508 ew01 Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:09:42 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-68508 Thanks Eric, but that Penn & Schoen poll was dubious to say the least. That's why I referred to "objective observers." A few things: that poll in reference came from the 2004 recall referendum, and was the only poll out there that gave those results. At least 8 other independent pollsters showed the opposite trend, which reflected the outcome of the vote. International observers, including president Carter, had to publicly chastise the firm <a href="http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1275" rel="nofollow">saying they</a> "deliberately distributed this erroneous exit poll data in order to build up, not only the expectation of victory, but also to influence the people still standing in line." The night before the last election (December 06) Doug Schoen was <a href="http://www.borev.net/2006/12/dont_cry_for_me_venezuela_disg.html" rel="nofollow">unceremoniously sacked</a> from the firm, and their Venezuelan operations taken over by Mark Penn, apparently because of all the negative publicity the firm was getting. This time, their poll results matched the outcome. So, yeah, there are some "questions" that have been raised, but all by folks with an agenda. As for "indefinite re-election," keep in mind that Chavez can't just do this. A constitutional amendment would require a supermajority in a national referendum (the "rule by decree" powers only cover specific areas of law). If Venezuelans vote to end term limits, that's their right. Thanks Eric, but that Penn & Schoen poll was dubious to say the least. That’s why I referred to “objective observers.” A few things: that poll in reference came from the 2004 recall referendum, and was the only poll out there that gave those results. At least 8 other independent pollsters showed the opposite trend, which reflected the outcome of the vote. International observers, including president Carter, had to publicly chastise the firm saying they “deliberately distributed this erroneous exit poll data in order to build up, not only the expectation of victory, but also to influence the people still standing in line.”

The night before the last election (December 06) Doug Schoen was unceremoniously sacked from the firm, and their Venezuelan operations taken over by Mark Penn, apparently because of all the negative publicity the firm was getting. This time, their poll results matched the outcome.

So, yeah, there are some “questions” that have been raised, but all by folks with an agenda.

As for “indefinite re-election,” keep in mind that Chavez can’t just do this. A constitutional amendment would require a supermajority in a national referendum (the “rule by decree” powers only cover specific areas of law). If Venezuelans vote to end term limits, that’s their right.

]]> By: Julia http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-68133 Julia Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:21:03 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-68133 I like to read articles that call things by their name, that dares to say theres a dictatorship where there is actually one. And this is definitly the case. I dont believe in the results of the latest elections that clame Chavez as a winner. Many "democratic" tools can be used as a facade of a not democratic regime. And the only two times that I have voted in my life, because Im not much older, I have notice how the current government just fools of my vote. I'm quite aware of the past and present damages that the US administration has done to the world, but that doesn't concern us as venezuelans. Chavez is creating an enemy we don't have, only for justify army, for getting more votes or screams of people with red shirts. I won't ever believe the anti-imperialism speech from a person who tryes to buy consciences all over the world by selling oil to very low prices or to very confortables ways to pay (example: Argentina, Cuba, Iran, its a long list). This is also imperialism to me, even if we don't send troops to invade somewhere. I don't know if the US is worried about the oil, our freedom or both, I don't care, as long as they are worried, and as long, as hope, as others are worried as well. Thats all they can do. The rest its a venezuelan trouble that I don't know if we can figure it out, but if we can, we have to do it ourselves. I'm glad to see the word Tyranny as a part of this article. I'm glad to read it in a blog called moderate. But I'm sad to notice that its real now, more real to the people who lives here and don't believe Chavez speeches, real and painful. I like to read articles that call things by their name, that dares to say theres a dictatorship where there is actually one. And this is definitly the case.
I dont believe in the results of the latest elections that clame Chavez as a winner. Many “democratic” tools can be used as a facade of a not democratic regime. And the only two times that I have voted in my life, because Im not much older, I have notice how the current government just fools of my vote.
I’m quite aware of the past and present damages that the US administration has done to the world, but that doesn’t concern us as venezuelans. Chavez is creating an enemy we don’t have, only for justify army, for getting more votes or screams of people with red shirts.
I won’t ever believe the anti-imperialism speech from a person who tryes to buy consciences all over the world by selling oil to very low prices or to very confortables ways to pay (example: Argentina, Cuba, Iran, its a long list). This is also imperialism to me, even if we don’t send troops to invade somewhere. I don’t know if the US is worried about the oil, our freedom or both, I don’t care, as long as they are worried, and as long, as hope, as others are worried as well. Thats all they can do. The rest its a venezuelan trouble that I don’t know if we can figure it out, but if we can, we have to do it ourselves.
I’m glad to see the word Tyranny as a part of this article. I’m glad to read it in a blog called moderate. But I’m sad to notice that its real now, more real to the people who lives here and don’t believe Chavez speeches, real and painful.

]]> By: Pyst http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-68099 Pyst Thu, 29 Mar 2007 02:01:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-68099 We need to get off foreign oil anyways, therefore like I said before I could care less about Venzuela. Anyways they aren't going to turn down American money that makes their country operate, so thats a non-starter anyways. This stuff is nothing but red meat for far right/pro-corporate Americans, and far left Venezuelans/anarchist Americans anyways. Cavuto would be proud of this type of article. We need to get off foreign oil anyways, therefore like I said before I could care less about Venzuela. Anyways they aren’t going to turn down American money that makes their country operate, so thats a non-starter anyways. This stuff is nothing but red meat for far right/pro-corporate Americans, and far left Venezuelans/anarchist Americans anyways.

Cavuto would be proud of this type of article.

]]> By: Eric http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-68087 Eric Thu, 29 Mar 2007 01:33:26 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-68087 Great ew01 except for the fact that <a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/wsj/?id=110005509" rel="nofollow">there were questions </a> about the elections. <blockquote>An exit poll done by the prominent U.S. polling firm of Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates showed 59% of voters opposed to Chávez and only 41% in favor. (Messrs. Penn and Schoen both worked for Bill Clinton in his 1996 re-election bid.) Raj Kumar, a principal at the polling firm, told me Thursday that the firm has gone back to try to explain the 34-point spread between the PSB poll and the results announced by the government. "While there are certainly biases that can impact any exit poll, we do not see any factor that could account for such a significant difference," he said. </blockquote> For myself I will assume that the election was accurate and that Chavez won but there is no disputing the fact that he has used his power to punish and silence opposition to his administration. They have term limits but Chavez has talk about changing it so he can stay in "indefinitely". While Chavez has spent much money on trying to combat poverty and improve conditions for the poor ignoring everything else is foolish in the extreme. Great ew01 except for the fact that there were questions about the elections.

An exit poll done by the prominent U.S. polling firm of Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates showed 59% of voters opposed to Chávez and only 41% in favor. (Messrs. Penn and Schoen both worked for Bill Clinton in his 1996 re-election bid.) Raj Kumar, a principal at the polling firm, told me Thursday that the firm has gone back to try to explain the 34-point spread between the PSB poll and the results announced by the government. “While there are certainly biases that can impact any exit poll, we do not see any factor that could account for such a significant difference,” he said.

For myself I will assume that the election was accurate and that Chavez won but there is no disputing the fact that he has used his power to punish and silence opposition to his administration.

They have term limits but Chavez has talk about changing it so he can stay in “indefinitely”.

While Chavez has spent much money on trying to combat poverty and improve conditions for the poor ignoring everything else is foolish in the extreme.

]]> By: ew01 http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-68057 ew01 Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:03:24 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-68057 You are entitled to your opinion on Chavez and the Bolivarian process, but you have to be accurate with your facts. No objective observers have questioned the country's elections. Chavez is popular among the vast majority of Venezuelans. The one-party-rule storyline is simply a myth. The Rule by Decree & Expropriation charges are grounded in truth but are much more nuanced than that. I have spent a lot of time in Venezuela. I actually used to work for the Government, and I've been depressed over the media coverage of what's going on there in the U.S. press. It just doesn't paint an accurate picture. You've got a good site. I hope you'll read more on this. You are entitled to your opinion on Chavez and the Bolivarian process, but you have to be accurate with your facts. No objective observers have questioned the country’s elections. Chavez is popular among the vast majority of Venezuelans. The one-party-rule storyline is simply a myth. The Rule by Decree & Expropriation charges are grounded in truth but are much more nuanced than that. I have spent a lot of time in Venezuela. I actually used to work for the Government, and I’ve been depressed over the media coverage of what’s going on there in the U.S. press. It just doesn’t paint an accurate picture. You’ve got a good site. I hope you’ll read more on this.

]]> By: SteveK http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67854 SteveK Wed, 28 Mar 2007 03:38:42 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67854 Our "Walk soft and carry a big stick" method of negotiating with our 'friends' in the south is at an end. Not because we don't have a "big stick" but because of the internet and 24/7 News coverage we can no longer "walk softly". It's a shame that there was no mention of "talking" in Teddy's oft quoted and little understood quote. Some might think that the oil in Venezuela belongs to Venezuela but it seems that some believe that Standard Oil, Chevron and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Minderbinder" rel="nofollow"><b>Milo Minderbinder</b></a> should pick our pockets, control dialogue and dictate US Foreign Policy... rrrriiiggght! Our “Walk soft and carry a big stick” method of negotiating with our ‘friends’ in the south is at an end.

Not because we don’t have a “big stick” but because of the internet and 24/7 News coverage we can no longer “walk softly”.

It’s a shame that there was no mention of “talking” in Teddy’s oft quoted and little understood quote.

Some might think that the oil in Venezuela belongs to Venezuela but it seems that some believe that Standard Oil, Chevron and Milo Minderbinder should pick our pockets, control dialogue and dictate US Foreign Policy… rrrriiiggght!

]]> By: Eric http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67846 Eric Wed, 28 Mar 2007 03:16:15 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67846 It's a mixed issue with oil and to be honest there is no worry that he will not sell to the US. For one thing because of the type of oil, most countries won't buy it because they can't use/refine it and we are set up for it already. Also Citgo is owned by Ven. What, they are going to throw all of that money away? Get real. Also if they did find a market that would use their oil that would displace existing oil sales from another producer enabling us to buy that. There are legitimate concerns about possible corruption. The silencing of critics and opposition. The rabid anti american rhetoric. The list goes on and on. Saying there is no reason that people would want to watch and be aware of whats happening is absurd beyond belief. It’s a mixed issue with oil and to be honest there is no worry that he will not sell to the US. For one thing because of the type of oil, most countries won’t buy it because they can’t use/refine it and we are set up for it already. Also Citgo is owned by Ven. What, they are going to throw all of that money away? Get real. Also if they did find a market that would use their oil that would displace existing oil sales from another producer enabling us to buy that.

There are legitimate concerns about possible corruption. The silencing of critics and opposition. The rabid anti american rhetoric. The list goes on and on. Saying there is no reason that people would want to watch and be aware of whats happening is absurd beyond belief.

]]> By: Chris http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67828 Chris Wed, 28 Mar 2007 02:07:25 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67828 <blockquote>Venezuela will be a problem for the U.S. because Chavez wants to sell as much of their oil to China and not to us as he can manage for purely political reasons no matter how little economic sense it makes. This does have the potential to create disruptions in our energy markets and our overall economy.</blockquote> Bingo. That's why our government is afraid of him. That's why they are attacking him at every turn. It's not because we are worried about the freedoms of the people of Venzeuela.

Venezuela will be a problem for the U.S. because Chavez wants to sell as much of their oil to China and not to us as he can manage for purely political reasons no matter how little economic sense it makes. This does have the potential to create disruptions in our energy markets and our overall economy.

Bingo.

That’s why our government is afraid of him. That’s why they are attacking him at every turn. It’s not because we are worried about the freedoms of the people of Venzeuela.

]]> By: Ashen Shard http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67823 Ashen Shard Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:57:45 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67823 Though I think the direction Venezuela is going is dangerous, we have no one to blame but ourselves for our foreign policy. Rather than working with these people, who have different ideas than us, and trying to exist peacefully we try and force what we want onto them. Now we are just crying because they won't play by our rules and on top of that are throwing back some of the same rhetoric we are throwing at them. And Bush is just as much of a thug masquerading as a man of the people as Chavez. Only Chavez seems to be actually doing stuff to try and benefit the people that comes at the expense of corporations and the wealthy. Though I think the direction Venezuela is going is dangerous, we have no one to blame but ourselves for our foreign policy. Rather than working with these people, who have different ideas than us, and trying to exist peacefully we try and force what we want onto them. Now we are just crying because they won’t play by our rules and on top of that are throwing back some of the same rhetoric we are throwing at them.

And Bush is just as much of a thug masquerading as a man of the people as Chavez. Only Chavez seems to be actually doing stuff to try and benefit the people that comes at the expense of corporations and the wealthy.

]]> By: BrotherAlpha http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67818 BrotherAlpha Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:44:00 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67818 "or, rather, “election,â€? total sham that it was " Four international organizations oversaw the election and there was a comprehensive audit of the results. This is more than you have in the United States. I know you don't like the man, but if you have to lie about him, the rest of your post is of little worth. “or, rather, “election,â€? total sham that it was ”

Four international organizations oversaw the election and there was a comprehensive audit of the results. This is more than you have in the United States.

I know you don’t like the man, but if you have to lie about him, the rest of your post is of little worth.

]]> By: Jim Satterfield http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67798 Jim Satterfield Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:46:35 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67798 Venezuela will be a problem for the U.S. because Chavez wants to sell as much of their oil to China and not to us as he can manage for purely political reasons no matter how little economic sense it makes. This does have the potential to create disruptions in our energy markets and our overall economy. Venezuela will be a problem for the U.S. because Chavez wants to sell as much of their oil to China and not to us as he can manage for purely political reasons no matter how little economic sense it makes. This does have the potential to create disruptions in our energy markets and our overall economy.

]]> By: Pyst http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67785 Pyst Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:05:43 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67785 As long as it isn't our system of government under threat I really could care less what Venezuela does, and others here shouldn't care either since Venzuela is no threat to us. As long as it isn’t our system of government under threat I really could care less what Venezuela does, and others here shouldn’t care either since Venzuela is no threat to us.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67753 DLS Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:43:03 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67753 The ever-continuing, never-ending Bolivarian Revolution, Incorporated...tyranny (obviously) and progressive totalitarianism, threatening to spread the disease elsewhere in Latin America, while demonizing the USA and Bush -- and do you notice the losers in the West who defend him and his "progress" [sic]? The ever-continuing, never-ending Bolivarian Revolution, Incorporated…tyranny (obviously) and progressive totalitarianism, threatening to spread the disease elsewhere in Latin America, while demonizing the USA and Bush — and do you notice the losers in the West who defend him and his “progress” [sic]?

]]> By: nicrivera http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67745 nicrivera Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:11:20 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67745 My God. Those last two comments were so bad, I don't even know where to start. I suppose the second comment made marginally more sense than the first, but the wishing of bankruptcy on our country struck me as needlessly beligerent. My God. Those last two comments were so bad, I don’t even know where to start.

I suppose the second comment made marginally more sense than the first, but the wishing of bankruptcy on our country struck me as needlessly beligerent.

]]> By: m http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67739 m Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:01:02 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67739 I have no idea what this meandering post is supposed to be attacking. " What real revolution is about." What? Real revolution vs. fake revolution? The American Revolution was what? Th French revolution? The Russian Revolution? Some real, some fake I guess? Mexico was which? And since when does the right to private property rank high on the list of needed freedoms? I'm not aware of Jesus (a revoluitonary, I guess) had much to say about private property. Was he 'for it' to the degree that most far right, conservatives seem to embrace both Christ and the right to have private property I take it it's a big part of the Bibile. I'm not sure why this author is so worried about Chavez. I'm a lot more worried about the damage being done to this country and the need for a revolution here in a few years. The Republic is almost dead. The imperial, military rule has taken control. I only hope bankruptcy hits this country before it can damge more of the world. Venezuelan politics has done far less damge to the world then the current administration in Washingiton and its support of the military industrial complex to destory the very heart of America. I have no idea what this meandering post is supposed to be attacking. ” What real revolution is about.” What? Real revolution vs. fake revolution? The American Revolution was what? Th French revolution? The Russian Revolution? Some real, some fake I guess? Mexico was which? And since when does the right to private property rank high on the list of needed freedoms? I’m not aware of Jesus (a revoluitonary, I guess) had much to say about private property. Was he ‘for it’ to the degree that most far right, conservatives seem to embrace both Christ and the right to have private property I take it it’s a big part of the Bibile.

I’m not sure why this author is so worried about Chavez. I’m a lot more worried about the damage being done to this country and the need for a revolution here in a few years. The Republic is almost dead. The imperial, military rule has taken control. I only hope bankruptcy hits this country before it can damge more of the world. Venezuelan politics has done far less damge to the world then the current administration in Washingiton and its support of the military industrial complex to destory the very heart of America.

]]> By: Jorge Gajardo Rojas http://themoderatevoice.com/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-67736 Jorge Gajardo Rojas Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:54:24 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/americas-n-s/latin-america/11761/the-soviet-union-of-venezuela/#comment-67736 The issue is that venezuelan Chavez has won all the election.And I believe that venezulean people is very smart and a people with many widsom.Is nor ethic give moral lessons to other countriesif you dont know the real situation.The times are changing to USA,is better take care of the situation of your country.We are not stupid person and our governmenrts are not more puppets from other country. The issue is that venezuelan Chavez has won all the election.And I believe that venezulean people is very smart and a people with many widsom.Is nor ethic give moral lessons to other countriesif you dont know the real situation.The times are changing to USA,is better take care of the situation of your country.We are not stupid person and our governmenrts are not more puppets from other country.

]]>