Some more on “My Military Service Made Me Do It”
Jul 24th, 2011 | 17 responses
Many have been offended by Rep. Allen West’s (R-FL) disgusting and unnecessary verbal attack on a fellow, lady Representative—an attack for which he has “steadfastly” refused to apologize.
Some were also offended by the Congressman’s sleazy use of these very same insults for fundraising purposes.
Others have found quite reprehensible this former military officer’s attempts to blame the military and his military service for his boorish behavior.
All of the above offended me.
When I wrote about this subject, a few readers came to West’s defense or rationalized his remarks.
For example, “Why should women get special treatment?” and “Please don’t make up bogus ‘sexism’ charges the way we’ve seen also bogus ‘racism’ charges and other bogus charges by the Left. It demeans not only those making it, but the environment as well.”
And there were the usual, “But the other side does it, too, and far worse” justifications.
All well and good. We are all entitled to our opinions and gratefully so.
However, one comment, which may have been made in jest, or sarcastically, especially caught my attention:
For crying out loud West was an Artillery Officer. Today’s artillery is mobile, he’s supposed to be a loose cannon!
Give the guy a break, he’s stressed
The comment made me realize that, perhaps, I had not done a good enough job of explaining what conduct—what language—is expected of a U.S. military officer.
Well, Richard Allen Smith, Vice -Chairman of VoteVets.org does a much better job.
In “No, Rep. West, That’s Not How We Speak in the Military,” Smith says:
Let’s be clear: the sexist and disrespectful language West directed at a colleague is incompatible with military service. There is not one officer worth his or her salt that would refer to a peer as “vile, unprofessional, and despicable”. If an Army leader were to criticize another’s performance, that leader would criticize them as a Soldier, not levy the insult that the individual is not “a lady”. Soldiers are Soldiers, and the same is true of members of Congress.
As a retired military, I know that we make all kinds of “unfortunate” remarks.
Smith puts it this way:
Now certainly, we say things in the military that you wouldn’t repeat in church or in front of your grandmother. As a noncommissioned officer in the 82nd Airborne Division, I dressed down my share of subordinates (which, of course, is not analogous to West’s tirade), but a leader attacks the work performance, not the Soldier. It’s no surprise, however, given the circumstances surrounding West’s military discharge, that he lacks many of the qualities of a good leader.
One of those qualities is respect, and it is taught to all Soldiers, not just leaders. In fact, respect is one of the seven Army Values that all Soldiers are taught within the first days of Basic Training…
Smith also addresses West’s “history of being little more than a bully,” both in Iraq and here at home.
For those who perhaps rightfully claim that “everyone else—from both parties—“ is at times disrespectful in Congress, Smith agrees with them: “And really, being disrespectful in the United States Congress is fine with me. If we starting booting all the disrespectful members in that institution we’d severely reduce its population.”
But, he continues, “when Allen West asserts that he learned disrespect from the Army, he is disgracing every Veteran and currently serving member of that honorable institution.”
Smith concludes:
I won’t stand for such disgrace, and neither should anyone else who has worn the uniform of our country.
No, Allen West, that’s not how we talk in the military. If you aren’t going to apologize to your Congresswoman, you should at least apologize to the brave men and women you insulted with your pitiful excuse.
Thinking back to my military service, yes, I have said some “not-so-nice” things, but never to a “Woman in the Air Force,” (WAF) and I would never blame any of my ungentlemanly conduct on my military service.
17 Responses to “Some more on “My Military Service Made Me Do It””
Well said Dorian.
I see hundreds, and have several hours of personal contact with between 2 to 8, veterans a week and the depth and degree of their good manners (“Sirs” and “Ma’ams”) is at times almost too much.
Though most of the vets are, like me, short timers (2 to 3 years) 40 to 60 years ago I credit much of their good manners to the military.
Personal experience tells me that Mr. West is not only a bully and a boor, he’s also a liar.
I have mixed feelings on this one DDW. I heard much worse than West’s comments every day when I was in the Air Force. There was one full Colonel in particular who was continually foul-mouthed and about the most un-PC person I’ve ever dealt with, yet held a position of high importance and responsibility. He was hardly unique, many other officers would commonly use profanity and insults, and occasionally a flat-out lie. I can’t imagine any of them being disciplined for calling someone “not a lady” unless they were referring publicly to a superior officer.
Very early in my training I was told the main purpose of the military (and by extension, me) was to kill people and break things. The end result of what the military does is often not pretty. To be effective there has to be a part of you that suspends the usual standards of propriety. Sometimes decisions are made quickly with limited information and can’t be subjected to a democratic process.
Having said that, West can’t seem to realize that he no longer is in combat and is subject to a different set of standards. What worked for him in one situation will not work for him in this one, and he has lost sight of that. The full Colonel I talked about above would be a terrible politician. There is some truth to West’s saying he was using a military approach, but it is no excuse.
Well of course it’s a joke. West made a complete ass of himself, military culture or not. Those that continue through life defining themselves by their former military service are somewhat pitiful IMO. Millions have served in the military. Most just let it all slip into the past. The vast majority of veterans have only spent a very short part of their early life in military service and are quit happy when it’s over. Extremely few run around reminding everybody about it. Maybe West feels the world will accept him behaving as a jackass because he was an Army officer, so he carries it around with him like it was tattooed across his forehead. If so he’ll have a rough life.
Sorry about the joke. Something about Joe Gandelman’s blog brings it out of me.
DG:
Thanks for your comments.
I believe I said:
“Thinking back to my military service, yes, I have said some “not-so-nice” things, but never to a “Woman in the Air Force,” (WAF) and I would never blame any of my ungentlemanly conduct on my military service.”
Of course there are always exceptions—your “colonel” may have been one—but was he foul-mouthed to female military? And, do you think he would—if he had become a “politician”—continued such “foul-moutheness” in Congress and toward a woman?
Perhaps yes, perhaps no. I guess we will never know.
I am truthful when I say that in my 20 years of military service, I don’t remember an Air Force officer being foul-mouthed towards a female service member.
Some other readers, I am sure. will present examples of conduct unbecoming an officer. But, sorry, such does not justify West’s outrageous blaming his military service for his remarks. (In all fairness, I believe you partially agree with the latter)
“The vast majority of veterans have only spent a very short part of their early life in military service and are quit happy when it’s over. Extremely few run around reminding everybody about it.”
The same applies to people who are proud of their service, but do not feel it is appropriate to try to use it as a weapon against others or a way to fish for compliments or artificially enhance their own credibility.
In fact, many people probably meet a lot more veterans than they are even aware of. And sometimes the efforts to cast conspicuous honors at those who parade their service and throw it in everyone’s face actually serves to insult those who DON’T do that.
@Allen.
Thanks for clarifying your remarks, and sorry if I was somewhat uncertain about the intent of them and used them anecdotally.
I should have asked you to expand/clarify them at the time.
De Wind-
Just a side note.
I can remember some pretty “foul mouthed” women in the military during my time. That was back in the Jurassic period.
Penza-
["those who parade their service and throw it in everyone's face actually serves to insult those who DON’T do that"]
That was exactly my point.
I think the point you are making here is that females should get special treatment. But isn’t that contrary to the whole idea of equality? It is a double standard and they shouldn’t get one, us acting like gentlemen, with out the other, them acting like ladies. As to his “Blaming” it on his military service I agree it’s BS but you know he’s going to mention it every chance he gets because it’s a vote getter. The one thing I will say is the psychological exams are a bit much people. He’s using it as a vote getter, we have no idea what he would say about it if he wasn’t in politics.
There was no WAF when I was in the military, by then women were integrated in. I remember plenty of foul-mouthed female military members but it was almost all just banter or blowing off steam. In that context, yeah I used bad language sometimes. The words West used “vile, unprofessional, and despicable” and “not a lady” would be considered pretty mild.
As I said though, that is no excuse for West’s comments. Many military members have gone into government and were able to control themselves. I agree with Allen that West made an ass of himself, and his trying to use the military as an excuse is pretty weak on his part.
EEllis
I disagree.
Women are very special to men and men are very special to women. So they treat each other with a degree of special respect, most generally anyway. I think it would be quit sad for this to disappear in the name of “perfect equality”. Robots, we are not.
Yes, Allen, West is guilty of parading his military service in the hopes that it would gain him special credibility or special treatment. That practice is, however, unfortunately not limited to West or to conservative veterans generally.
LOGAN PENZA-
What makes you want to tell me this?
Sorry, it is off-topic. But I was a little offended to see the recent spate of honors and compliments showered on Dorian and Shawn and others who are veterans and who work with veterans while others of us who are also veterans were ignored. It seems that unless a veteran here is both left-leaning and Vietnam-era, it just doesn’t count for anything around here. In particular, I was left off of not one but THREE summary lists of TMV contributors who were considered qualified to talk about the military and veterans issues and when I tried to quietly point out that I should have been included in that list, I got a very snarky dismissal in response.
But it is off-topic, so I’ll drop it.
LOGAN PENZA-
lol
I remember when the Veterans of Foreign Wars, (VFW), was getting so desperate for members that they started allowing in people who were vets, but not vets that served in a war abroad, (which had been the rule). I considered it a good thing, because for me it meant that we had gone a really long time without a war.
There were plenty of people that could have joined the VFW under the original rules, (and I don’t know if they have changed again or not), but they just didn’t want too.
Military service can be very difficult, but that’s why they call it “service”. Being proud of accomplishing the difficult is normal. Choosing to spend the rest of your life with it tattooed across your forehead is ridiculous and childish. Can you imagine someone who has been given that tattoo by being awarded with the medal of Honor? Now they have to spend the rest of their life living in honor that reflects on the medal. One screw-up and you risk becoming headline news. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody and I cannot understand why anyone would want to emulate that life.
@Allen
Thanks for your comments.
As to VFW membership, I believe that unless the veteran actually served in a foreign/overseas war theater he can not join the VFW. I am perfectly OK with this. A friend of mine at our local VFW Post tried to make me a member, but the rules prevented such.
You are right, membership has been going down, despite our “new wars” and despite of so many thousands upon thousands of new veterans.
One VFW Post (here in Austin) is trying to attract the younger veterans. I wrote about this not too long ago here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dorian-de-wind/veterans-of-foreign-wars-_b_846134.html
My issue is not with this as a theory or even in practice but with Females who refuse to “treat each other with a degree of special respect” but still expect it from the males. It must be a two way street and often it is not. There is a gap between what used to be good manners and what ever we as a society hopeful develop to take it’s place.