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	<title>Comments on: Tsar Putin Without Opposition</title>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-68773</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 02:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-68773</guid>
		<description>Yeah. It also doesn&#039;t make him any more authoritarian. Soviets had the tendency to disappear into gulags, yes, but the whole freaking country became a gulag in 1991. Currency was devalued, taxes rose to 95%, the government just started raping the people in ways no one could have imagined (except Harvard, after all, they orchestrated the whole thing). Putin may be authoritarian (although you people like to stick that label to anyone you don&#039;t like, so it&#039;s pretty meaningless at this point) but he gets the job done and gets it done better than anyone. I frankly don&#039;t care what happens to reporters, if you live in Russia you have about 500 bigger and more imminent problems that Putin does a very good job of addressing. His only real flaws are that some of the people he keeps close are morons and he&#039;s too soft on criminal activities.

Most Russians didn&#039;t enjoy riches, but name one country where most people do. What most Russians DID enjoy was not being homeless, guarantee of great free education and work, guarantee of a pension and place for retirement, guarantee of healthcare, and a rather sophisticated level of culture. There was SOMETHING that got us first into space, that got us the first atomic icebreaker, that allowed us to support half the third world on our shoulders and that allowed our country to exist and thrive not only against the wishes of the entire first world but against the laws of economics and human nature themselves.

But apparently none of that matters because we didn&#039;t fly limos to work and have dollars pour out of our asses.

What exactly, from your POV, is Putin doing that is authoritarian?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah. It also doesn&#8217;t make him any more authoritarian. Soviets had the tendency to disappear into gulags, yes, but the whole freaking country became a gulag in 1991. Currency was devalued, taxes rose to 95%, the government just started raping the people in ways no one could have imagined (except Harvard, after all, they orchestrated the whole thing). Putin may be authoritarian (although you people like to stick that label to anyone you don&#8217;t like, so it&#8217;s pretty meaningless at this point) but he gets the job done and gets it done better than anyone. I frankly don&#8217;t care what happens to reporters, if you live in Russia you have about 500 bigger and more imminent problems that Putin does a very good job of addressing. His only real flaws are that some of the people he keeps close are morons and he&#8217;s too soft on criminal activities.</p>
<p>Most Russians didn&#8217;t enjoy riches, but name one country where most people do. What most Russians DID enjoy was not being homeless, guarantee of great free education and work, guarantee of a pension and place for retirement, guarantee of healthcare, and a rather sophisticated level of culture. There was SOMETHING that got us first into space, that got us the first atomic icebreaker, that allowed us to support half the third world on our shoulders and that allowed our country to exist and thrive not only against the wishes of the entire first world but against the laws of economics and human nature themselves.</p>
<p>But apparently none of that matters because we didn&#8217;t fly limos to work and have dollars pour out of our asses.</p>
<p>What exactly, from your POV, is Putin doing that is authoritarian?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael van der Galien</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-67328</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der Galien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-67328</guid>
		<description>But who is pretending that all was good in Russia before Putin came to power Alex? I know I&#039;m not. Jeltsin was a disaster: an alcoholic who couldn&#039;t run his own housekeeping, let alone Russia. USSR: despite your... slightly positive description was a hell for a lot of people as well. I&#039;m not just talking about the fact that opponents of the Soviets had this strange tendency to disappear (into a Gulag), but also economically. I&#039;m not sure what your role / situation in the USSR was, but most Russian didn&#039;t exactly enjoy riches.

All of that, however, doesn&#039;t make Putin any less autoritarian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But who is pretending that all was good in Russia before Putin came to power Alex? I know I&#8217;m not. Jeltsin was a disaster: an alcoholic who couldn&#8217;t run his own housekeeping, let alone Russia. USSR: despite your&#8230; slightly positive description was a hell for a lot of people as well. I&#8217;m not just talking about the fact that opponents of the Soviets had this strange tendency to disappear (into a Gulag), but also economically. I&#8217;m not sure what your role / situation in the USSR was, but most Russian didn&#8217;t exactly enjoy riches.</p>
<p>All of that, however, doesn&#8217;t make Putin any less autoritarian.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-66991</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 15:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-66991</guid>
		<description>@DLS

&gt;You mean the â€œworkersâ€™ paradise,â€? in particular, prior to 1990?

Hmm, let&#039;s see... we had universal literacy, some of the best education in the world, free (and pretty good) healthcare, guaranteed pension, guaranteed apartment housing and dachas guaranteed for retirement. Although our income was incredibly low and you&#039;d have to work for about 10 years to be able to afford a car, there were still opportunities given that allowed people to live a pretty good life. After the perestroika, all of that evaporated and instead all of our cities have billboards on every corner advertising cell phones and diamond rings to remind us how poor we are. But hey, on the plus side we got 2 week long holidays in the winter so that all the rich people can go blow off steam in italy and switzerland while figure out how not to starve.

Gorbachev&#039;s anti-alcohol campaign was a disaster because, like everything else he did, he did it in the most stupid way possible. He had the brilliant idea of destroying expensive and exotic wine and cutting out wineyards, when any alcoholic can tell you they never drink wine because you can get more vodka for the same price. The people Gorbachev was trying to cure turned to alternative substances, such as distilled antifreeze or cologne or brake fluid. Gorbachev had noble intentions, but he was a moron in carrying them out.

The mortality rise was before the perestroika, but you can notice how sharply it spiked up immediately afterwards, and how the birth rate fell down (from your graphs). Now, under Putin, the birth rate is improving and life expectancy is slowly increasing, but I guess that is overshadowed by the fact that we can no longer pretend that we don&#039;t know what resource we are stealing so that we can incorrectly it on our tax forms and cheat the country out of billions of dollars, and then use the money to buy our way into Duma. Damn, he&#039;s evil.

Now, please educate us stupid Russians on how bad Putin and his top-mafia-gang are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DLS</p>
<p>&gt;You mean the â€œworkersâ€™ paradise,â€? in particular, prior to 1990?</p>
<p>Hmm, let&#8217;s see&#8230; we had universal literacy, some of the best education in the world, free (and pretty good) healthcare, guaranteed pension, guaranteed apartment housing and dachas guaranteed for retirement. Although our income was incredibly low and you&#8217;d have to work for about 10 years to be able to afford a car, there were still opportunities given that allowed people to live a pretty good life. After the perestroika, all of that evaporated and instead all of our cities have billboards on every corner advertising cell phones and diamond rings to remind us how poor we are. But hey, on the plus side we got 2 week long holidays in the winter so that all the rich people can go blow off steam in italy and switzerland while figure out how not to starve.</p>
<p>Gorbachev&#8217;s anti-alcohol campaign was a disaster because, like everything else he did, he did it in the most stupid way possible. He had the brilliant idea of destroying expensive and exotic wine and cutting out wineyards, when any alcoholic can tell you they never drink wine because you can get more vodka for the same price. The people Gorbachev was trying to cure turned to alternative substances, such as distilled antifreeze or cologne or brake fluid. Gorbachev had noble intentions, but he was a moron in carrying them out.</p>
<p>The mortality rise was before the perestroika, but you can notice how sharply it spiked up immediately afterwards, and how the birth rate fell down (from your graphs). Now, under Putin, the birth rate is improving and life expectancy is slowly increasing, but I guess that is overshadowed by the fact that we can no longer pretend that we don&#8217;t know what resource we are stealing so that we can incorrectly it on our tax forms and cheat the country out of billions of dollars, and then use the money to buy our way into Duma. Damn, he&#8217;s evil.</p>
<p>Now, please educate us stupid Russians on how bad Putin and his top-mafia-gang are.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-66980</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 15:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-66980</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m suprised there isn&#039;t a landslide of &quot;just like Bush&quot; remarks here, given how bad Putin and his top-mafia-gang have been.

However --

Alex said:

&gt; Hell, letâ€™s blame everything on Putin.
&gt; I mean, life was so much better when
&gt; we were a â€œdemocracyâ€?. 

  You mean the &quot;workers&#039; paradise,&quot; in particular, prior to 1990?

  Some readers are probably aware that Russia&#039;s serious health problems are in large part due to a remarkable rise above other Western nations&#039; levels in mortality.  However, you (not Alex, but others) probably are not aware that this rise in mortality preceded 1990.  Take a look sometime.

  The only time there was a temporary break from high mortality and growth was during Gorby&#039;s anti-alcohol campaign.  (Food for thought on those who want to raise taxes on alcohol here in the States to help defray government health care costs.)


  See the graph near the top of this page, for example:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP162/index2.html

  More:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1273/MR1273.ch4.pdf


&quot;In the mid-1960s, life expectancy began to decrease in the USSR and in many Eastern European countries.&quot;

&quot;The year 1965 introduced the modern epidemiological crisis in Russia. [...] gradual mortality increase (1965-1980) [...] Gorbachev&#039;s anti-alcohol campaign, which began in 1985, caused a break from the long-term trends. &quot;

http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF124/cf124.chap4.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m suprised there isn&#8217;t a landslide of &#8220;just like Bush&#8221; remarks here, given how bad Putin and his top-mafia-gang have been.</p>
<p>However &#8211;</p>
<p>Alex said:</p>
<p>&gt; Hell, letâ€™s blame everything on Putin.<br />
&gt; I mean, life was so much better when<br />
&gt; we were a â€œdemocracyâ€?. </p>
<p>  You mean the &#8220;workers&#8217; paradise,&#8221; in particular, prior to 1990?</p>
<p>  Some readers are probably aware that Russia&#8217;s serious health problems are in large part due to a remarkable rise above other Western nations&#8217; levels in mortality.  However, you (not Alex, but others) probably are not aware that this rise in mortality preceded 1990.  Take a look sometime.</p>
<p>  The only time there was a temporary break from high mortality and growth was during Gorby&#8217;s anti-alcohol campaign.  (Food for thought on those who want to raise taxes on alcohol here in the States to help defray government health care costs.)</p>
<p>  See the graph near the top of this page, for example:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP162/index2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP162/index2.html</a></p>
<p>  More:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1273/MR1273.ch4.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1273/MR1273.ch4.pdf</a></p>
<p>&#8220;In the mid-1960s, life expectancy began to decrease in the USSR and in many Eastern European countries.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The year 1965 introduced the modern epidemiological crisis in Russia. [...] gradual mortality increase (1965-1980) [...] Gorbachev&#8217;s anti-alcohol campaign, which began in 1985, caused a break from the long-term trends. &#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF124/cf124.chap4.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF124/cf124.chap4.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-66916</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 04:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-66916</guid>
		<description>Nobody here has mentioned the fact that the Petersburg protests were conceived by a former hardline communist Neo-Nazi convicted of illegal possession of weapons, and that they were aimed solely at picking a fight with the police and shutting down the city. Nobody has also mentioned that Limonov is known for using impressionable people to commit extremist acts so that he can look as if he&#039;s being persecuted and gain support from sympathetic idiots. No one has also mentioned that Putin&#039;s administration has yet to be convicted of ordering the murder of a single journalist, whereas quite a few of the murders lumped on Putin were obviously done by oligarchs/Chechen terrorists. Pavel Khlebnikov is the most obvious example.

Yeah, we had democracy for 8 years. It was really neat. We could say whatever the hell we want, lie and steal and evade taxes as much as we want, and the west was willing to overlook the worst human rights abuses in exchange for Yeltsin doing a dance. Then Evil Tsar Putin came along and now everyone&#039;s dead. Oh, and no one forgot to mention that there are dozens of influential Russian &quot;journalists&quot; who ruthlessly bashed Putin every day on the radio and TV for the past 6 years and no one has put a finger on them. Oh wait, one of them died from alcohol poisoning. That Must Be Putin&#039;s Fault Too!

Hell, let&#039;s blame everything on Putin. I mean, life was so much better when   we were a &quot;democracy&quot;. Just ask all the Russians who managed to run away to the far corners of the world 15 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody here has mentioned the fact that the Petersburg protests were conceived by a former hardline communist Neo-Nazi convicted of illegal possession of weapons, and that they were aimed solely at picking a fight with the police and shutting down the city. Nobody has also mentioned that Limonov is known for using impressionable people to commit extremist acts so that he can look as if he&#8217;s being persecuted and gain support from sympathetic idiots. No one has also mentioned that Putin&#8217;s administration has yet to be convicted of ordering the murder of a single journalist, whereas quite a few of the murders lumped on Putin were obviously done by oligarchs/Chechen terrorists. Pavel Khlebnikov is the most obvious example.</p>
<p>Yeah, we had democracy for 8 years. It was really neat. We could say whatever the hell we want, lie and steal and evade taxes as much as we want, and the west was willing to overlook the worst human rights abuses in exchange for Yeltsin doing a dance. Then Evil Tsar Putin came along and now everyone&#8217;s dead. Oh, and no one forgot to mention that there are dozens of influential Russian &#8220;journalists&#8221; who ruthlessly bashed Putin every day on the radio and TV for the past 6 years and no one has put a finger on them. Oh wait, one of them died from alcohol poisoning. That Must Be Putin&#8217;s Fault Too!</p>
<p>Hell, let&#8217;s blame everything on Putin. I mean, life was so much better when   we were a &#8220;democracy&#8221;. Just ask all the Russians who managed to run away to the far corners of the world 15 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-66802</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-66802</guid>
		<description>MVG-

I guess it depends on what the meaning of &#039;short&#039; is.

My point is that the Russian people, like the Iraqi people, could not remold themselves overnight.  Drastic change assumes that lessons which normally take decades, if not centuries, to learn can be internalized in a flash.

Now we see a tidal move backwards.  I only hope that the next tide will go forwards again.  It should not be sudden, in my estimation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MVG-</p>
<p>I guess it depends on what the meaning of &#8216;short&#8217; is.</p>
<p>My point is that the Russian people, like the Iraqi people, could not remold themselves overnight.  Drastic change assumes that lessons which normally take decades, if not centuries, to learn can be internalized in a flash.</p>
<p>Now we see a tidal move backwards.  I only hope that the next tide will go forwards again.  It should not be sudden, in my estimation.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael van der GaliÃ«n</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-66784</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der GaliÃ«n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-66784</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Putins of the world step into chaos with relish and the road to the throne is short.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think you are mistaken. I think that Putin&#039;s road to the throne took quite some years. 

Anyway, I once read that many Russians feel that the only good leader for Russia... is a &lt;em&gt;strong&lt;/em&gt; leader. If they do... well, it&#039;s no wonder that a person like Putin can act like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Putins of the world step into chaos with relish and the road to the throne is short.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think you are mistaken. I think that Putin&#8217;s road to the throne took quite some years. </p>
<p>Anyway, I once read that many Russians feel that the only good leader for Russia&#8230; is a <em>strong</em> leader. If they do&#8230; well, it&#8217;s no wonder that a person like Putin can act like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Tsar Vlad I at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source.</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-66779</link>
		<dc:creator>Tsar Vlad I at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-66779</guid>
		<description>[...] Vladimir Putin has managed to push Russia back into a virtual single-party state, and he has the assistance of the Russian judiciary for that goal. Yesterday, the Russian Supreme Court denied one of the few opposition parties left in Russia access to the ballot, which means that the next Duma will likely have no opposition representation at all (via Michael van der Galien at TMV): Russia&#8217;s next parliament is likely to have no genuine opposition after a court in Moscow yesterday banned a leading liberal party from standing in elections. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vladimir Putin has managed to push Russia back into a virtual single-party state, and he has the assistance of the Russian judiciary for that goal. Yesterday, the Russian Supreme Court denied one of the few opposition parties left in Russia access to the ballot, which means that the next Duma will likely have no opposition representation at all (via Michael van der Galien at TMV): Russia&#8217;s next parliament is likely to have no genuine opposition after a court in Moscow yesterday banned a leading liberal party from standing in elections. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/comment-page-1/#comment-66778</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 12:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/russia/11701/tsar-putin-without-opposition/#comment-66778</guid>
		<description>Putin would not be Tsar 
without considerable popular support.  The road to his throne began in the chaotic times after the fall of the SSR.  
A country with no experience of democracy was turned upside down overnight, with the West demanding and financing immediate economic and 
social overhauls.
The result was chaotic, and the people wanted order, quite naturally.

It was a lesson about the dangers of drastic and sudden change.  It would have been good to read once more that history chapter before going to war in Iraq.

The Putins of the world step into chaos with relish and the road to the throne is short.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putin would not be Tsar<br />
without considerable popular support.  The road to his throne began in the chaotic times after the fall of the SSR.<br />
A country with no experience of democracy was turned upside down overnight, with the West demanding and financing immediate economic and<br />
social overhauls.<br />
The result was chaotic, and the people wanted order, quite naturally.</p>
<p>It was a lesson about the dangers of drastic and sudden change.  It would have been good to read once more that history chapter before going to war in Iraq.</p>
<p>The Putins of the world step into chaos with relish and the road to the throne is short.</p>
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