DLS Says:
The truth rubs the most loserish leftists raw.

I shake my head and smile when I read a thread where fellow posters from the right display their heartfelt ‘Eeyorian’ thought process. It reminds me of my pesimistic youth as a Young Republican living in ‘Pooh Corners’…

“A little Consideration, a little Thought for Others, makes all the difference. Or so they say.” – Eeyore

The truth rubs the most loserish leftists raw.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has told his political allies to join him in a single socialist party, or leave his government.

United States President George W. Bush has told his Federal Prosecutors to join him politically, or leave his government.

Michael,

Do you believe that a ‘My way or the highway‘ attitude is BAD in Venezuela only or do you see the same abuse of power is happening here?

IMHO

BrotherAlpha,

I’m all in favor of candid conversation. But comments like that are not helpful.

- nicrivera

As for Chavez’s executive powers, the NeoCons are trying to get Bush to do the same. Issue executive orders therefor bypassing congress.

Oh, and DLS, people wouldn’t trying to kill Americans so much if your country wasn’t filled with dickheads like you. 9/11 was a suck punch, it was blowback. Anyone who had been paying attention to America’s foreign policy over the past 30 years, (or longer), knew it was coming. It was just a matter of when and what group.

> Psychology tells us that on the personal scale,
> in how people react to aggression, “us and them�
> weigh a whole lot more heavily than “right and
> wrong�.

You have a point. In fact, this is related to the #1 reason why a (ground) invasion of Iran is wrong. All the Iranians who are not fans of the government, and even may be friendly to the USA, would promptly become patriots and our enemies if we invaded.

> We want the people of Venezula to be on our side
> because we are right, not against us simply because
> we are “the others�.

I note the priority here in contrast to that of the preceding statement.

> I am very much a concrete realist,

As am I, though I am not as hard as, say, Nixon might have been in being willing deal with the lousier people on the planet.

> and certainly
> try not to be motivated by revenge. I would not want
> the factory to be destroyed until that action would
> actually benefit the world as a whole.

Once it’s operational, then your test has been met, unless you want to actually confirm the presence and use of the weapons elsewhere first.

I doubt we’ll destroy the factory, much less attack something more important, the Venezuelan oil infrastructure, to cut off the revenues. (With both Venezuela and Iran, we are dependent on their petroleum; Iran additionally has threatened to attack the oil infrastructure of any nation helping us conduct an attack on Iran, predictable and quite effective as a threat.) But the factory exemplifies the real as well as political threat Chavez has been creating, despite the denials of those who are not realistic.

> It isn’t a question of who’s leader is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’

Right and wrong have very much to do with it.

Psychology tells us that on the personal scale, in how people react to aggression, “us and them” weigh a whole lot more heavily than “right and wrong”.

We want the people of Venezula to be on our side because we are right, not against us simply because we are “the others”. Aggressive rhetoric and actions dramatically increase the likelihood of the later.

I am very much a concrete realist, and certainly try not to be motivated by revenge. I would not want the factory to be destroyed until that action would actually benefit the world as a whole. We quickly jump into a murky pond of hypotheticals, but it is not so much the current number of US citizens killed that would concern me, as that has already happened and cannot be rectified, but rather the potential to set a precedent that leads to more US citizens dieing in the future. However, that certainly has to be weighed against the possibility of war, which will certainly kill many people. I guess it all comes down to what you value in the end, and ‘honor’ is quite low on my list.

> DLS, how would you feel if another country
> said they thought it was a good idea to bomb
> buildings on American soil. I bet you wouldn’t
> like it,

I certainly don’t like Iran.

However, the USA isn’t asking for it, either, and you are misleading people if you say merely “buildings,” taken out of context (a Kalashnikov factory, that Chavez will exploit to enrich himself further while exporting more unrest outside his nation).

> It isn’t a question of who’s leader is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’

Right and wrong have very much to do with it.

If a single US citizen is killed (would you require that first?) … that factory should be destroyed.

Also, I would be willing to bet that in 25 or 30 years when China stops growing at extreme rates, that the new middle class in China are going to look around and be very unhappy with the corruption rampant in the Chinese government. It may be possible for the Chinese government to introduce openness and accountability, but that openness, combined with a free market, would make the China of tomorrow a very different creature than the old Communism of the 40’s and 50’s.

I don’t think we need to be too worried about Chavez. History has proven again and again that centralized control simply doesn’t work.

Well, while it may not work, it doesn’t necessarily lead to loss of power and control. Just ask Castro, or the Chinese leadership.

Now why on earth would you imagine the situation would be any different to the people of Venezuela? It isn’t a question of who’s leader is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ it is about being scared for your friends and relatives who might work at that plant, or the hardships they would face because that building got destroyed.

> I think Chavez will have someone tell him
> “In reality you are not indispensable.�

… and replace him.

> aggressive rhetoric like DLS is spewing

BS

>which makes

non sequitur

Quit while you’re ahead, not behind.

The two things which might allow him to hold on to power longer would be failure to deal with the world’s oil habit, which empowers whoever happens to have oil, regardless of economic savvy, and aggressive rhetoric like DLS is spewing which makes the Venezuelan people feel like the need a strong leader to deal with the strong tactics of the US.

We should not hesitate to destroy his Kalashnikov factory, and much, much worse should befall him and others like him if even one US citizen is harmed in the region by the likes of him and his ilk, beginning with the destruction of his oil facilities so he no longer can fund his scummy and dangerous behavior south of us, nor buy the votes of losers here at home with his assistance-bribery program.

*snicker* “The Perpetual Bolivarian Revolution, Incorporated”