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Top General Pace Condemns Homosexuality
I’ve said lots of nice things about Marine General Peter Pace (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff). But I’m certainly not going to endorse his retrograde views on homosexuality, which serve only to weaken our Armed Forces and deprieve patriotic American men and women the ability to freely and openly serve their country.
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30 Responses to “Top General Pace Condemns Homosexuality”
Yeah, sure ‘homosecual act are immoral’. Well, and what about starting a war on falsified informations? What a hypocrite!
Wow.
General Pace is entitled to his own opinion, and I’m not going to engage in any political correctness calling for the guy to be sanctioned in any way.
But this just goes to show how f—ed up our priorities are in this country. As it is, the military is having trouble meeting its recruiting goals–even to the point of lowering the standards to get into the military.
And here we have Americans who actually WANT to fight for our country, and the military won’t let them.
Bizarre.
“I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is okay to be immoral in any way.”- General Pace, explaining his support for don’t ask, don’t tell, a policy rooted in the past with worries of a broad strain of bigotry in the military, which does not actually reflect the majority of troops any longer, most of whom by polling appear to be less bigoted and more decent towards their fellow Americans than most of the population.
Once again: “I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is okay to be immoral in any way.”- General Pace, explaining his support for don’t ask, don’t tell, a policy rooted in bigotry which forces men of the armed services to hide their identities for fear of persecution…
Umm…yes, that’s bad too. Peter Pace doesn’t start wars. We have civilian control of the military in this country. And in any event, Pace was not Chair of the JCoS in 2002-03.
Substantive responses remain appreciated.
“Peter Pace doesn’t start wars. ”
Howver, he could have resigned instead of playing a vital part in an immoral war. Hypocrite.
“Hypocrite”
No misunderstanding, pls, this is aimed at General Pace, not at you, David.
The irony of the “first ” Iraq War wounded vet just coming out iin jutxtaposition with the gay Marine being embarrased by Coultergeist and the Fox crowd is unbelievable. It’s OK to bleed and die for your country, just don’t be a gay soldier. But a pretentious comic book gay escort Marine is OK, as long as your a mouthpiece for CPAC. Maybe Simone Ledeen can “cur” Major Rod of his disease.
An openly bigotted attitude like Pace’s is scandalous in this day and age. The military has dropped its standards and accepts criminals and high school dropouts, but gays aren’t good enough to serve their country? Why not segregate them like we did blacks 60 years ago (sarcasm off).???
I love that, we’re willing to take criminals but not homosexuals.
So, let’s do a checklist:
Gayness: immoral
Crime: who’s to say, really?
Maybe he meant he didn’t want any of those John Edwards kind of faggots in the military.
What a complete disaster. Why would the general of the least popular war in American history make a personal, bigoted, and unpopular comment about what he thinks? Really, what makes people take leave of their senses?
I don’t understand why he thinks it’s okay that they serve as long as they’re closeted, but should be expelled if they’re discovered.
People with secrets are a security risk. If there were no consequences, it wouldn’t matter. But they’ve set up a system in which soldiers have to lie in order to keep their jobs. Pace needs to get past his personal upbringing and concentrate on the real risks to his command.
That he even thinks about this when he’s on the verge of losing the war in Iraq is amazing.
Mikef – The CinC had a secret that Fox News uncovered just before the 2000 election. Are you saying that because he lied and covered up his past, W is a security risk and shouldn’t serve his country as CinC?
“Are you saying that because he lied and covered up his past, W is a security risk and shouldn’t serve his country as CinC? ”
Actually, I believe we would all be better off if he had not, lol. His service as CinC has got us embroiled in two wars, one which was not necessary, drained our treasury, stretched our military , caused many thousands of deaths and destroyed an entire country.
Is it really any surprise an old Marine General would feel this way? The fact is that him and his kind are on the way out of the military and new generations of officers have a much more progressive view.
Hey, what would be wrong with a pro-life person saying that abortion is immoral? No one ever condemns this statement. Because…pro lifers have a right to believe that abortion is wrong. No one has ever asked a minister, average Joe, Presidential candidate, or Pentagon employee to apologize for saying “I believe that abortion is immoral”. Have tthey? I’ve certainly never seen that happen. Why is it, then, that while I can believe abortion is immoral, the minute that I say homosexuality is immoral, bam, i’m a biggot with no liberty to my own opinion? If I say that 2 straight people cohabitating are living an immoral life-style, no one cares. If, however, I assert that 2 gays living together are immoral, then, bam, I’m one serious biggot.
Sounds live reverse prejudice in action here.
Why should gays receive special exemption from free speech?
(awaiting a reply from the thought police)
Pace is hardly being extraordinary or unusual in any way, so why is he the object of so much loserish behavior (extended when convenient to the Bush administration, of course)?
Now wait and see if sometime in the future, homosexual conduct is the basis for the military seeking the disciplining or discharge of one of its members now that Pace has said this.
*sound of sirens*
“Thought Police, you’re under arrest!”
Actually, I suspect the issue has more to do with Pace’s position rather than the specific content of his comments. If he was a lance corporal, nobody would care.
Of course the larger issue is what’s called “group dynamics”. You’ve all seen situations where a friendship ended when one of the friends became romantically involved with someone else? The same concern drives the military’s attitude toward women and gays.
Military units, particularly combat units, strive to have intense “unit cohesion”, a kind of very close but non-sexual relationship between men within the unit. Since a heterosexual or homosexual romantic relationship could compete with the unit for a soldier’s attention and loyalty, women and gays are restricted and often denounced in rather crude terms–the “cadence calls” during marches often involve crude and derogatory comments about these two groups.
Of course, there’s also the fact that conservatives are more common in the military than liberals–on the enlisted level Republicans outnumber Democrats 3:1; by the time you get to the senior officer level the ratio is more like 8:1, so that’s probably a factor too,
I think he should resign for calling the Vice President’s gay daughter immoral.
Why should gays receive special exemption from free speech?
(awaiting a reply from the thought police)
I’m guessing you’re one who calls a spade a spade, and maybe sometimes a n****r, another one of those things those nasty thought police get all riled up about.
I just love how one one really answered this persons question… figures
Hey, what would be wrong with a pro-life person saying that abortion is immoral? No one ever condemns this statement. Because…pro lifers have a right to believe that abortion is wrong. No one has ever asked a minister, average Joe, Presidential candidate, or Pentagon employee to apologize for saying “I believe that abortion is immoral�. Have tthey? I’ve certainly never seen that happen. Why is it, then, that while I can believe abortion is immoral, the minute that I say homosexuality is immoral, bam, i’m a biggot with no liberty to my own opinion? If I say that 2 straight people cohabitating are living an immoral life-style, no one cares. If, however, I assert that 2 gays living together are immoral, then, bam, I’m one serious biggot.
Sounds live reverse prejudice in action here.
Why should gays receive special exemption from free speech?
(awaiting a reply from the thought police)
I for one am glad the General is NOT going to apologize… He has the right to believe that being homosexual is wrong and he has a right to believe that people should not be out in the military… What’s funny is that I bet the MAJORITY of people posting on here have never served or sacrificed for our country. So SHUT UP already… go enlist and then come back here and lets talk… oh wait.. You will probably be running to Canada or France. Idiots
Sue,
You appear to have a shaky grasp of the concept of “free speech”. You’ve every right to believe that homosexuality is “immoral” and to express that view. By the same token, people who disagree with you have every right to express the opinion that you’re a bigot (please note the correct spelling).
They’re not interfering with your right to free speech or opinion, but exercising their own. Deal with it.
I think you misread my comment. The “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is all about shame. It forces otherwise competent soldiers to hide their personal lives or pay the consequences. Any time you create a situation like that, you run the risk that a soldier can be blackmailed. That creates a security threat.
As for the CinC, he’s entirely outside the military system. Exposure of his past didn’t cost him his job, it just embarassed him a bit. Exposing a soldier’s homosexuality ends his career, period.
… and Jessica, this isn’t about what Pace believes. It’s about what he does. He’s in a position to ensure that those he feels are immoral are punished for it. Once your beliefs start treading on other people’s lives there’s a problem.
I love the people who hide behind “moral and immoral” that kill people for a living.
“You appear to have a shaky grasp of the concept of “free speechâ€?. You’ve every right to believe that homosexuality is “immoralâ€? and to express that view.”
Rob, you appear to have a shaky grasp of the concept of ‘representing the US Army’. As a member of the armed forces, soldiers have to always behave in a way that doesn’t dishonor the service. This includes some limits on the right of free speech. By volunteering for the forces, the troops accepted those limitations. Publicly stating discriminating remarks sure isn’t in the best interest of the US Army. Period.
Gray,
Oops. Of course, you are absolutely right about the limits to speech attendant on Pace’s position as a representative of the U.S. Armed Forces.
I wasn’t addressing the Pace situation per se, but the more general dynamic Sue brought up in her post (she uses some examples with *herself* making some hypothetical remarks about gays).
I should’ve specified that at the start of my post– sorry for the lack of clarity.
> I think he should resign for calling the Vice President’s gay daughter immoral.
I would say, instead, that the next time the Vice President is being interviewed on the air, he should be asked what he thinks of Pace’s comment. We all know the real reason why the question would be asked, and the response would be interesting.
It’s not an exemption for free speech. A person’s still free to spout bigotry and self-righteousness at any level with a sense of indignation which goes against the very core of your morality…
Anyone can say pretty much anything they want. It’s not stopping free speeh if other people get upset about it….
Abortion and homosexuality are two different things. Abortion is a choice which leads to the death of a potential human being. Homosexuality, much like heterosexuality, if practiced with proper protection between two consenting, non-STD ridden individuals, is highly unlikely to cause the death of a child.
Beyond that, the implication of two people living together and not making babies and that being immoral is those two people living together and not making babies can still join the military, can’t they? So, the issue is with the context of the situation. People who get abortions can serve in the military, I think. People who have been convicted of crimes can serve in the military.
The reason people got frustrated with this comment isn’t simply because of the fact that one of our lead generals finds homosexuality immoral. It’s that it’s being used as a reason to keep folks out of the military, despite the fact that a large majority of the military has said they would have no problem fighting alongside gays, and despite the fact that plenty of homosexuals have served our military honorably, albeit in a closeted fashion.
You see, you seem to be confusing people calling you a bigot with folks actually saying you have no right to an opinion, or attempting to take that opinion away. That’s not the case. What you’re trying to do is make your statements rhetorically unapproachable, so that if you do say something, calling you a bigot or some’at on account of it, or pointing out the flaws in what you’re saying is censorship. It’s not. Censorship is if your post was deleted, or if someone actually prevented you for voicing your opinion. It’s not simply critcising you for the opinion you hold.
It’s also not reverse prejudice. If you said two homosexuals living together is immoral, then no one would care either, because you’re not a leading general using that as a reason against putting gays in the military. If a leading general said any single folks that were living with other single folks were not allowed in the military, then people would really stir business about that. That said, two heterosexuals living together being immoral might be considered inane as well by folks that would stir business about it considering the large amount of heterosexuals living together, however, those two heterosexuals have the capability to reproduce together, and moreover, to legally marry. Homosexuals do not have that right or that biological ability. So, they do not have the means by which to be moral under those guidelines.
The biggest irony, assuming Jessica lives up to her own standards, is that a bit ago she would not have been able to serve in the military for much the same ‘practical’ reasons homosexuals are being kept from serving. So, the irony in that statement would be tremendous.
Rob, I was reminded of this because I experienced it myself during my time in the military. The brass sure made a point of proper behaviour in the public. And I didn’t like it a lil bit, always thinking it was a severe limitation of my rights as a citizen (even though I understood the reasoning behind this). But those are the rules, and I guess they are similar in armies all around the world.
:-/
General Pace is a fine one to talk about morality. He is in the business of killing people and transforming young men and women to into trained killers but he is bothered by the “immorality� of a homosexual lifestyle.