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	<title>Comments on: The Lessons of &#8216;Lawrence of Arabia&#8217;</title>
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	<description>An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right</description>
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		<title>By: Of Lawrence, Saudi Arabia, Arabs &#38; the West &#124; The Moderate Voice</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-78384</link>
		<dc:creator>Of Lawrence, Saudi Arabia, Arabs &#38; the West &#124; The Moderate Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-78384</guid>
		<description>[...] had interesting comments that followed two TMV posts - The Lessons of â€˜Lawrence of Arabiaâ€™ by Shaun Mullen, and my post on Myth of Muslim Support for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] had interesting comments that followed two TMV posts &#8211; The Lessons of â€˜Lawrence of Arabiaâ€™ by Shaun Mullen, and my post on Myth of Muslim Support for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Moderate Voice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Of Lawrence, Saudi Arabia, Arabs &#38; the West</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-55113</link>
		<dc:creator>The Moderate Voice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Of Lawrence, Saudi Arabia, Arabs &#38; the West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-55113</guid>
		<description>[...] We had interesting comments that followed two TMV posts - The Lessons of â€˜Lawrence of Arabiaâ€™ by Shaun Mullen, and my post on Myth of Muslim Support for Terror [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We had interesting comments that followed two TMV posts &#8211; The Lessons of â€˜Lawrence of Arabiaâ€™ by Shaun Mullen, and my post on Myth of Muslim Support for Terror [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie's Farm</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-54925</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie's Farm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-54925</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Sunday Links...&lt;/strong&gt;

T.E. Lawrence was one of the most fascinating people in recent history, and his Seven Pillars of Wisdom remains a masterpiece - and a page-turner. His role in the present-day Middle East is not overlooked by Moderate Voice.Â I doubt that Gen. Petraeus ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Sunday Links&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>T.E. Lawrence was one of the most fascinating people in recent history, and his Seven Pillars of Wisdom remains a masterpiece &#8211; and a page-turner. His role in the present-day Middle East is not overlooked by Moderate Voice.Â I doubt that Gen. Petraeus &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-54918</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-54918</guid>
		<description>I noticed the update. ANOTHER DVD version of &quot;Lawrence of Arabia&quot; is coming out?

This is simply disgraceful!! Who do they think they are? George Lucas?

With each DVD release, wait a month and there is a Special Edition. For popular classics...there may be a Director&#039;s Cut.

Then a Super Special Anniversary Edition, remasterd in 6.1 Dolby.

I have a beautiful version of &quot;Lawrence of Arabia&quot; on my shelf, and now there is another one?

Why does going to the video store these days feel like being in a  shower scene in a prison movie?  

&quot;Excuse me, sir, but I think you dropped your soap...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed the update. ANOTHER DVD version of &#8220;Lawrence of Arabia&#8221; is coming out?</p>
<p>This is simply disgraceful!! Who do they think they are? George Lucas?</p>
<p>With each DVD release, wait a month and there is a Special Edition. For popular classics&#8230;there may be a Director&#8217;s Cut.</p>
<p>Then a Super Special Anniversary Edition, remasterd in 6.1 Dolby.</p>
<p>I have a beautiful version of &#8220;Lawrence of Arabia&#8221; on my shelf, and now there is another one?</p>
<p>Why does going to the video store these days feel like being in a  shower scene in a prison movie?  </p>
<p>&#8220;Excuse me, sir, but I think you dropped your soap&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Swaraaj Chauhan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-54874</link>
		<dc:creator>Swaraaj Chauhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-54874</guid>
		<description>I have written some posts about my stay in Saudi Arabia. &lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/uncategorized/arabs-israelis-and-individual-perspectives/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Please click here&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/strong&gt;to visit one such post. Some other time I would attempt the comparison about the change in US/Saudi perspective in another post.

May I suggest that it is worthwhile to go through my earlier post on Gertrude Bell of Iraq...&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/uncategorized/legendary-gertrude-bell-of-iraq-and-arabia/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;please click here.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

By leaving Arabs alone I meant that don&#039;t stupidly barge into any country...as happened in Iraq. Even if the situation so demands, the consensus of the world community is important...as happened in the case of Afghanistan. Even then prolonged stay in a country by foreign troops is a sure invitation  to disaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have written some posts about my stay in Saudi Arabia. <strong><a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/uncategorized/arabs-israelis-and-individual-perspectives/" rel="nofollow">Please click here</a> </strong>to visit one such post. Some other time I would attempt the comparison about the change in US/Saudi perspective in another post.</p>
<p>May I suggest that it is worthwhile to go through my earlier post on Gertrude Bell of Iraq&#8230;<strong><a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/uncategorized/legendary-gertrude-bell-of-iraq-and-arabia/" rel="nofollow">please click here.</a></strong></p>
<p>By leaving Arabs alone I meant that don&#8217;t stupidly barge into any country&#8230;as happened in Iraq. Even if the situation so demands, the consensus of the world community is important&#8230;as happened in the case of Afghanistan. Even then prolonged stay in a country by foreign troops is a sure invitation  to disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael van der Galien</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-54869</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael van der Galien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-54869</guid>
		<description>Swaraaj: it seems to me that one of the main problems is that many people involved simply know little or virtually nothing about the cultures. They approach them as if they&#039;re Westerners. I once read somewhere, don&#039;t remember where right now, about how Arabs &#039;negotiate&#039;: they talk about, indeed, families for hours and then they go home. Without ever having talked business. Then they come back, same thing... until they have decided that they can trust you, etc.

Anyway, this also is related to Marlow&#039;s comment: I agree completely, it&#039;s one of America&#039;s most significant problems regarding foreign policy matters: the ignorance, even of it&#039;s leaders, about other countries and cultures.

Anyway, you write:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I have been saying repeatedly over the past few years that the Arabs have to be left alone.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s absolutely impossible. If they would be left alone, Iran would have nuclear weapons within no time. If they would be left alone certain countries would become true safe havens (even more than now) for terrorists, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Swaraaj: it seems to me that one of the main problems is that many people involved simply know little or virtually nothing about the cultures. They approach them as if they&#8217;re Westerners. I once read somewhere, don&#8217;t remember where right now, about how Arabs &#8216;negotiate&#8217;: they talk about, indeed, families for hours and then they go home. Without ever having talked business. Then they come back, same thing&#8230; until they have decided that they can trust you, etc.</p>
<p>Anyway, this also is related to Marlow&#8217;s comment: I agree completely, it&#8217;s one of America&#8217;s most significant problems regarding foreign policy matters: the ignorance, even of it&#8217;s leaders, about other countries and cultures.</p>
<p>Anyway, you write:</p>
<blockquote><p>I have been saying repeatedly over the past few years that the Arabs have to be left alone.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s absolutely impossible. If they would be left alone, Iran would have nuclear weapons within no time. If they would be left alone certain countries would become true safe havens (even more than now) for terrorists, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-54868</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-54868</guid>
		<description>Swaraaj...you say you worked at the Saudi Gazette in 1976?

I would be curious...and others here too probably...to know your thoughts on the changes in the US-West/Arab relationship over that time as a result of that perspective?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Swaraaj&#8230;you say you worked at the Saudi Gazette in 1976?</p>
<p>I would be curious&#8230;and others here too probably&#8230;to know your thoughts on the changes in the US-West/Arab relationship over that time as a result of that perspective?</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-54867</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-54867</guid>
		<description>Looks to me as if the first picture should be in 4:3 TV foramt, rathe than widescreen. Or do you really believe that Sharif and Quinn made such long faces in this movie?
:D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks to me as if the first picture should be in 4:3 TV foramt, rathe than widescreen. Or do you really believe that Sharif and Quinn made such long faces in this movie?<br />
 <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-54866</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-54866</guid>
		<description>A very interesting post. &quot;Lawrence of Arabia&quot; clearly has analogies to the 21st century Middle East.

It is truly an amazing movie...perhaps the finest cinematography I have ever seen, with Lean&#039;s shots of the vast deserts. 

Two quotes from the movie, regarding Shaun&#039;s post:
Lawrence: 
&quot;Sherif Ali: So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe...so long will they be
a little people...a silly people. Greedy, barbarous and cruel,
as you are.&quot;

You can&#039;t get much more politically incorrect than that! Would this pass Hollywood censors today?

Faisel: &quot;The English have a great hunger for
desolate places.&quot;

I think this last quote is the BIG difference between the English and the US in the Middle East. The British were fascinated by the region, studied it for centuries with explorers wandering about disquised as Arabs and speaking the language fluently. Its empire builders often ignored Arabists like Lawrence, but they could still draw upon their skills.

Americans seem largely indifferent to the world beyond its shores. Vague about geography and often not bothering to reflect on the complexities of other cultures. No offense. I love America. But just recently there were news stories about an extraordinary lack of Arab speakers/translators at the FBI...this, years after 9-11. 

Empire builders always need pains-in-the-ass like Lawrence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very interesting post. &#8220;Lawrence of Arabia&#8221; clearly has analogies to the 21st century Middle East.</p>
<p>It is truly an amazing movie&#8230;perhaps the finest cinematography I have ever seen, with Lean&#8217;s shots of the vast deserts. </p>
<p>Two quotes from the movie, regarding Shaun&#8217;s post:<br />
Lawrence:<br />
&#8220;Sherif Ali: So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe&#8230;so long will they be<br />
a little people&#8230;a silly people. Greedy, barbarous and cruel,<br />
as you are.&#8221;</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t get much more politically incorrect than that! Would this pass Hollywood censors today?</p>
<p>Faisel: &#8220;The English have a great hunger for<br />
desolate places.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this last quote is the BIG difference between the English and the US in the Middle East. The British were fascinated by the region, studied it for centuries with explorers wandering about disquised as Arabs and speaking the language fluently. Its empire builders often ignored Arabists like Lawrence, but they could still draw upon their skills.</p>
<p>Americans seem largely indifferent to the world beyond its shores. Vague about geography and often not bothering to reflect on the complexities of other cultures. No offense. I love America. But just recently there were news stories about an extraordinary lack of Arab speakers/translators at the FBI&#8230;this, years after 9-11. </p>
<p>Empire builders always need pains-in-the-ass like Lawrence.</p>
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		<title>By: Swaraaj Chauhan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/11121/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/comment-page-1/#comment-54864</link>
		<dc:creator>Swaraaj Chauhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/books/the-lessons-of-lawrence-of-arabia/#comment-54864</guid>
		<description>Excellent post Shaun. One of the reasons I joined &lt;em&gt;Saudi Gazette&lt;/em&gt; newspaper at Jeddah/Riyadh in 1976 was the inspiration I got after reading about the life and times of T.E. Lawrence. I have also seen the film &lt;em&gt;Lawrence of Arabia&lt;/em&gt; a number of times, and strongly recommend that those interested in the Arab world should see it.

The tribe spirit still survives even among those Arabs who have very modern outlook and may have studied at leading universities in the USA or the UK. This spirit is not negative but peculiar to the desert. It is a sort of a protective shield against unpredictable and harsh &#039;modernity&#039;. 

Arabs are shy and appear withdrawing because they nurture a fear that the Western culture, dominated by the US, would overwhelm their own simple and uncomplicated way of life. The US politicians and others have done nothing to allay this fear. Instead we have Iraq, Afghanistan and (now coming up) Iran fiascoes that have created utter chaos, panic and suspicion in the Arab world. 

In Lawrence&#039;s time there was a lot of delegation of power. The British officers were allowed to take independent decisions after befriending the local chiefs. Now we have &#039;illiterate&#039; dim-witted politicians sitting in the world capitals ordering soldiers/officers on the spot what to do and what not to do.

Unless a foreign soldier/civilian learns to befriend an Arab first and wins his confidence, nothing can be achieved in West Asia. I agree with Shaun that Arabs are fiercely independent and there is no guarantee that even then they would cooperate. 

I have been saying repeatedly over the past few years that the Arabs have to be left alone. After having created the present mess/confusion, the US administration would have to seek UN/world leaders&#039; help to get out of this quick-sand (remember Shaun that scene where a helpless Lawrence tries to save a young Arab).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post Shaun. One of the reasons I joined <em>Saudi Gazette</em> newspaper at Jeddah/Riyadh in 1976 was the inspiration I got after reading about the life and times of T.E. Lawrence. I have also seen the film <em>Lawrence of Arabia</em> a number of times, and strongly recommend that those interested in the Arab world should see it.</p>
<p>The tribe spirit still survives even among those Arabs who have very modern outlook and may have studied at leading universities in the USA or the UK. This spirit is not negative but peculiar to the desert. It is a sort of a protective shield against unpredictable and harsh &#8216;modernity&#8217;. </p>
<p>Arabs are shy and appear withdrawing because they nurture a fear that the Western culture, dominated by the US, would overwhelm their own simple and uncomplicated way of life. The US politicians and others have done nothing to allay this fear. Instead we have Iraq, Afghanistan and (now coming up) Iran fiascoes that have created utter chaos, panic and suspicion in the Arab world. </p>
<p>In Lawrence&#8217;s time there was a lot of delegation of power. The British officers were allowed to take independent decisions after befriending the local chiefs. Now we have &#8216;illiterate&#8217; dim-witted politicians sitting in the world capitals ordering soldiers/officers on the spot what to do and what not to do.</p>
<p>Unless a foreign soldier/civilian learns to befriend an Arab first and wins his confidence, nothing can be achieved in West Asia. I agree with Shaun that Arabs are fiercely independent and there is no guarantee that even then they would cooperate. </p>
<p>I have been saying repeatedly over the past few years that the Arabs have to be left alone. After having created the present mess/confusion, the US administration would have to seek UN/world leaders&#8217; help to get out of this quick-sand (remember Shaun that scene where a helpless Lawrence tries to save a young Arab).</p>
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