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	<title>Comments on: Conservative GOPers Targeting Hillary (UPDATED)</title>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10979/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/comment-page-1/#comment-53668</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/#comment-53668</guid>
		<description>Ok, Hillary isn&#039;t my first choice for &#039;08, and has a nuanced position on the war. If she comes out and apologizes for her vote, she will be pilloried for exhibiting weakness, and many will be unable to see her capable of assuming the role of CIC. She has to project toughness to even be considered.

Also, I think she is more than capable of facing down attacks by right-wing pundits and talk radio hosts. She and Bill survived his presidency by fighting back, and Bill actually led the way for the Democrats to fight back in &#039;06 in his interview with Chris Wallace. I actually think she leads the pack in her ability to face this kind of criticism. Kerry and Gore lost, imo, at least partly because they ignored it and hoped it would go away. Sen Clinton knows ahead of time that she can&#039;t afford to take that route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, Hillary isn&#8217;t my first choice for &#8216;08, and has a nuanced position on the war. If she comes out and apologizes for her vote, she will be pilloried for exhibiting weakness, and many will be unable to see her capable of assuming the role of CIC. She has to project toughness to even be considered.</p>
<p>Also, I think she is more than capable of facing down attacks by right-wing pundits and talk radio hosts. She and Bill survived his presidency by fighting back, and Bill actually led the way for the Democrats to fight back in &#8216;06 in his interview with Chris Wallace. I actually think she leads the pack in her ability to face this kind of criticism. Kerry and Gore lost, imo, at least partly because they ignored it and hoped it would go away. Sen Clinton knows ahead of time that she can&#8217;t afford to take that route.</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10979/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/comment-page-1/#comment-53667</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 18:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/#comment-53667</guid>
		<description>Four years later, and Senator Clinton still won&#039;t apologize for her vote.  Meanwhile, many of the same Democrats who have been so critical of Bush, are so quick to &lt;a href=&quot;http://dean2004.blogspot.com/2007/02/personal-attacks-on-clinton-deja-vu.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;defend&lt;/a&gt; Clinton.

Pamela Leavy has it exactly wrong when she writes:

&lt;em&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;I personally think the most important issue about Iraq at this point is ending the war, not dredging up the past over and over again. We can make a difference in the future by bringing an end to Bushâ€™s ill-gotten war, but we canâ€™t change the past. If sheâ€™s not willing to apologize, so be it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

No, we can&#039;t change the past.  But we can work to ensures that mistakes that were made in the past aren&#039;t repeated.  This debate is more than just about ending the Iraq but working to ensure that the next president doesn&#039;t also get us into an unnecessary war.

If Clinton can&#039;t apologize for her vote in favor of the war, how are we supposed to believe that she, too, won&#039;t lead us into war?  Thus far, the explanations that she&#039;s been giving these last few weeks are not consistent with her rhetoric &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-cjQ4r_Y_cqXPXpxyIWQePYrgXHbB?p=136&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;before the war&lt;/a&gt;.  Like Bush, she is retroactively changing the reason why she originally supported the war.

This is just like the Democrats.  Back in 2004, a majority of the party opposed the war and didn&#039;t agree with John Kerry&#039;s position on it.  But John Kerry was the only Democrat who could defeat Bush (or so we were told), and so Democrats held those noses and voted for John &quot;I was for it before I was against it&quot; Kerry.

With 60% of Americans against the war, is it really too much to ask that we have a &lt;em&gt;principled&lt;/em&gt; anti-war candidate this time around?

Senator Clinton had her chance, and she blew it.  She&#039;s had &lt;em&gt;four years&lt;/em&gt; to think about the vote she cast for this misguided war, admit her mistake, and give assurances that she learned from her mistake and won&#039;t do it again.  She has failed to do that.  Senator Clinton and other Democrats who voted in favor of the war need to learn that it isn&#039;t enough to simply lay all the blame on President Bush without admitting that they too made a mistake.

Clinton&#039;s pigheadedness in refusing to apologize for her vote in favor of the war combined with her past history of pandering to conservatives on such issues as flag burning and cracking down on &quot;inappropriate&quot; television content assures that I will not vote for her in 2008.

The best way to assure that the two major parties continue to offer up mediocre presidential candidates is for Democrats and Republicans to continue to vote for mediocre candidates during the primaries.

Having money and widespread name recognition is no substitute for true leadership--which means having the courage to make the right choice even when it&#039;s not politically popular and admit when you are/were wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Four years later, and Senator Clinton still won&#8217;t apologize for her vote.  Meanwhile, many of the same Democrats who have been so critical of Bush, are so quick to <a href="http://dean2004.blogspot.com/2007/02/personal-attacks-on-clinton-deja-vu.html" rel="nofollow">defend</a> Clinton.</p>
<p>Pamela Leavy has it exactly wrong when she writes:</p>
<p><em><br />
<blockquote>I personally think the most important issue about Iraq at this point is ending the war, not dredging up the past over and over again. We can make a difference in the future by bringing an end to Bushâ€™s ill-gotten war, but we canâ€™t change the past. If sheâ€™s not willing to apologize, so be it.</p></blockquote>
<p></em></p>
<p>No, we can&#8217;t change the past.  But we can work to ensures that mistakes that were made in the past aren&#8217;t repeated.  This debate is more than just about ending the Iraq but working to ensure that the next president doesn&#8217;t also get us into an unnecessary war.</p>
<p>If Clinton can&#8217;t apologize for her vote in favor of the war, how are we supposed to believe that she, too, won&#8217;t lead us into war?  Thus far, the explanations that she&#8217;s been giving these last few weeks are not consistent with her rhetoric <a href="http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-cjQ4r_Y_cqXPXpxyIWQePYrgXHbB?p=136" rel="nofollow">before the war</a>.  Like Bush, she is retroactively changing the reason why she originally supported the war.</p>
<p>This is just like the Democrats.  Back in 2004, a majority of the party opposed the war and didn&#8217;t agree with John Kerry&#8217;s position on it.  But John Kerry was the only Democrat who could defeat Bush (or so we were told), and so Democrats held those noses and voted for John &#8220;I was for it before I was against it&#8221; Kerry.</p>
<p>With 60% of Americans against the war, is it really too much to ask that we have a <em>principled</em> anti-war candidate this time around?</p>
<p>Senator Clinton had her chance, and she blew it.  She&#8217;s had <em>four years</em> to think about the vote she cast for this misguided war, admit her mistake, and give assurances that she learned from her mistake and won&#8217;t do it again.  She has failed to do that.  Senator Clinton and other Democrats who voted in favor of the war need to learn that it isn&#8217;t enough to simply lay all the blame on President Bush without admitting that they too made a mistake.</p>
<p>Clinton&#8217;s pigheadedness in refusing to apologize for her vote in favor of the war combined with her past history of pandering to conservatives on such issues as flag burning and cracking down on &#8220;inappropriate&#8221; television content assures that I will not vote for her in 2008.</p>
<p>The best way to assure that the two major parties continue to offer up mediocre presidential candidates is for Democrats and Republicans to continue to vote for mediocre candidates during the primaries.</p>
<p>Having money and widespread name recognition is no substitute for true leadership&#8211;which means having the courage to make the right choice even when it&#8217;s not politically popular and admit when you are/were wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: George Sorwell</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10979/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/comment-page-1/#comment-53657</link>
		<dc:creator>George Sorwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/#comment-53657</guid>
		<description>The argument--such as it was--that Democrats would &lt;em&gt;somehow be worse&lt;/em&gt; than Republicans was surprisingly robust in 2004. By 2006 it was threadbare. I don&#039;t think there will be much left in 2008. 

Hillary has been a target of right-wing vitriol for 15 years. She&#039;s still standing. No wonder they&#039;re afraid of her.

Unlike Obama and Edwards, Hillary is already a well-defined character. That&#039;s to her advantage, I think. 

What else have they got to throw at her? Do they have anything new? Or do they just have the same old talking points we&#039;ve been hearing for years from Limbaugh and Hannity and Fox News, only louder? 

As for this movie, I doubt it will have much impact. Consider how tone-deaf that Fox News &quot;comedy&quot; show was. If they don&#039;t have the equivalant of Mrs. Clinton reading My Pet Goat while the twin towers burn and a grieving gold star mother pouring her heart out to--yuck!--Dick Morris, this swift-boat won&#039;t sail. 

Whatever hasn&#039;t killed her has made her stronger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument&#8211;such as it was&#8211;that Democrats would <em>somehow be worse</em> than Republicans was surprisingly robust in 2004. By 2006 it was threadbare. I don&#8217;t think there will be much left in 2008. </p>
<p>Hillary has been a target of right-wing vitriol for 15 years. She&#8217;s still standing. No wonder they&#8217;re afraid of her.</p>
<p>Unlike Obama and Edwards, Hillary is already a well-defined character. That&#8217;s to her advantage, I think. </p>
<p>What else have they got to throw at her? Do they have anything new? Or do they just have the same old talking points we&#8217;ve been hearing for years from Limbaugh and Hannity and Fox News, only louder? </p>
<p>As for this movie, I doubt it will have much impact. Consider how tone-deaf that Fox News &#8220;comedy&#8221; show was. If they don&#8217;t have the equivalant of Mrs. Clinton reading My Pet Goat while the twin towers burn and a grieving gold star mother pouring her heart out to&#8211;yuck!&#8211;Dick Morris, this swift-boat won&#8217;t sail. </p>
<p>Whatever hasn&#8217;t killed her has made her stronger.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10979/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/comment-page-1/#comment-53641</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/#comment-53641</guid>
		<description>Good report, joe, but the last line is a bit, uh, funny:
&quot;Is she really ready for it?&quot;

Yeah, indeed, can a candidate who personally experienced and survived the &#039;Whitewater&#039; and &#039;Levinsky&#039; hurricanes, among other heavy storms,  really be ready for the republican smearosphere?
:D
Come on, Joe, this is hillaryous...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good report, joe, but the last line is a bit, uh, funny:<br />
&#8220;Is she really ready for it?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, indeed, can a candidate who personally experienced and survived the &#8216;Whitewater&#8217; and &#8216;Levinsky&#8217; hurricanes, among other heavy storms,  really be ready for the republican smearosphere?<br />
 <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Come on, Joe, this is hillaryous&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10979/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/comment-page-1/#comment-53637</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/#comment-53637</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Los Angeles Times reports that GOP conservativesâ€™ political knives are out â€” bigtime â€” for New York Senator Hillary Clinton.&quot;
Well, so much for our hopes that this will be a campaign focussing on the topics. I remember we talked about this here just recently...

&quot;And one of the political knives is reportedly held by former Clinton advisor Dick Morris, now a columnist and Fox News contributor:&quot;
Another point why candidates should stay away from professional  political consultants. Those mercennary beltway pundits will sell their clients  faster than you can say &quot;Mary Carville&quot; or &quot;James Matalin&quot;.
:-/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Los Angeles Times reports that GOP conservativesâ€™ political knives are out â€” bigtime â€” for New York Senator Hillary Clinton.&#8221;<br />
Well, so much for our hopes that this will be a campaign focussing on the topics. I remember we talked about this here just recently&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;And one of the political knives is reportedly held by former Clinton advisor Dick Morris, now a columnist and Fox News contributor:&#8221;<br />
Another point why candidates should stay away from professional  political consultants. Those mercennary beltway pundits will sell their clients  faster than you can say &#8220;Mary Carville&#8221; or &#8220;James Matalin&#8221;.<br />
:-/</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Satterfield</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10979/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/comment-page-1/#comment-53623</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Satterfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/#comment-53623</guid>
		<description>Elrod,

   I don&#039;t think that conservatives know how to be careful when it comes to either Clinton. Their hatred is so strong and (in their opinion) righteous that they are blind to the fact that a lot of people might be turned off by a repeat of what they did during the Clinton Administration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elrod,</p>
<p>   I don&#8217;t think that conservatives know how to be careful when it comes to either Clinton. Their hatred is so strong and (in their opinion) righteous that they are blind to the fact that a lot of people might be turned off by a repeat of what they did during the Clinton Administration.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10979/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/comment-page-1/#comment-53622</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/#comment-53622</guid>
		<description>No one is unbeatable of course. Only if Hillary is the  nominee will I vote for the Dems in the general election this time around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one is unbeatable of course. Only if Hillary is the  nominee will I vote for the Dems in the general election this time around.</p>
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		<title>By: Elrod</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10979/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/comment-page-1/#comment-53620</link>
		<dc:creator>Elrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservative-gopers-targeting-hillary/#comment-53620</guid>
		<description>I have mixed feelings about this. I just don&#039;t see Hillary as &quot;unbeatable&quot; in 2008. I&#039;ll vote for her in a general election to be sure but not in a primary. The funny thing about Clinton is that she knows how to play jujitsu with right-wingers very well. If the right wing attacks her too hard, it will turn off moderate voters who will back her. Conservatives have to be careful with how they go after her. As a supporter of Obama, I&#039;m not bothered if she falls a bit at this point. Both she and Giuliani are front runners in their parties right now, and I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s a good place to be at this point when everybody&#039;s aiming their guns at the top.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have mixed feelings about this. I just don&#8217;t see Hillary as &#8220;unbeatable&#8221; in 2008. I&#8217;ll vote for her in a general election to be sure but not in a primary. The funny thing about Clinton is that she knows how to play jujitsu with right-wingers very well. If the right wing attacks her too hard, it will turn off moderate voters who will back her. Conservatives have to be careful with how they go after her. As a supporter of Obama, I&#8217;m not bothered if she falls a bit at this point. Both she and Giuliani are front runners in their parties right now, and I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s a good place to be at this point when everybody&#8217;s aiming their guns at the top.</p>
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