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	<title>Comments on: We&#8217;ve Said From The Start: Watch The Independent Voters</title>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53526</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53526</guid>
		<description>Remeber awhile back when W promised debt relief for poor nations in Africa and hobnobbed with Bono. Seems one of his motives was corruption/cronyism. Via Cernig:
http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/vultures.html
&lt;blockquote&gt;Kat, a regular reader (and practically the official Newshog researcher) has sent me the link to Greg Palast&#039;s latest over at Democracy Now. It concerns â€œVulture fundâ€? companies who buy up the debt of poor countries at cheap prices, and then demand payments much higher than the original amount of the debt, often taking poor countries to court when they cannot afford to repay. The biggest &quot;vulture&quot; in the US, according to Palast, is:

    Paul Singer...[who] is the number one donor to George Bush at the moment, has given over a million-and-a-half dollars in the last campaign. Heâ€™s Rudy Giuliani&#039;s chief fundraiser, raising $15 million now for his presidential campaign. He&#039;s a billionaire. He controls a $7 billion fund, and he&#039;s obviously very close with the Bush administration, which is crucial, absolutely crucial to his making these profits.

Why is it crucial?

    Under US law, the President of the United States has the absolute power to stop any vulture fund from collecting money from a poor nation, under the US Constitution. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is just as blatant as the Conservative govenor of Texas issuing an executive order for the pr-sex/anti-cancer vaccine to benefit his friends in the pharmy crowd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remeber awhile back when W promised debt relief for poor nations in Africa and hobnobbed with Bono. Seems one of his motives was corruption/cronyism. Via Cernig:<br />
<a href="http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/vultures.html" rel="nofollow">http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/vultures.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Kat, a regular reader (and practically the official Newshog researcher) has sent me the link to Greg Palast&#8217;s latest over at Democracy Now. It concerns â€œVulture fundâ€? companies who buy up the debt of poor countries at cheap prices, and then demand payments much higher than the original amount of the debt, often taking poor countries to court when they cannot afford to repay. The biggest &#8220;vulture&#8221; in the US, according to Palast, is:</p>
<p>    Paul Singer&#8230;[who] is the number one donor to George Bush at the moment, has given over a million-and-a-half dollars in the last campaign. Heâ€™s Rudy Giuliani&#8217;s chief fundraiser, raising $15 million now for his presidential campaign. He&#8217;s a billionaire. He controls a $7 billion fund, and he&#8217;s obviously very close with the Bush administration, which is crucial, absolutely crucial to his making these profits.</p>
<p>Why is it crucial?</p>
<p>    Under US law, the President of the United States has the absolute power to stop any vulture fund from collecting money from a poor nation, under the US Constitution. </p></blockquote>
<p>This is just as blatant as the Conservative govenor of Texas issuing an executive order for the pr-sex/anti-cancer vaccine to benefit his friends in the pharmy crowd.</p>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53490</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 15:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53490</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Every attempt by the Republicans to develop new voters has been a dismal failure and have hurt their prospects for the future. The Republicans do not have credibility on any issue and thus have no prospects for winning new voters. &lt;/em&gt;

They have failed to win new voters and are losing moderate ones, because overall they have governed narrowly in a way that benefits the hard-core party base. The appeals to broaden that base haven&#039;t worked because voters are savvy enough to look beyond surface-level appeals to the actual policy that has been enacted by Bush and the GOP in Congress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Every attempt by the Republicans to develop new voters has been a dismal failure and have hurt their prospects for the future. The Republicans do not have credibility on any issue and thus have no prospects for winning new voters. </em></p>
<p>They have failed to win new voters and are losing moderate ones, because overall they have governed narrowly in a way that benefits the hard-core party base. The appeals to broaden that base haven&#8217;t worked because voters are savvy enough to look beyond surface-level appeals to the actual policy that has been enacted by Bush and the GOP in Congress.</p>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53489</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 15:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53489</guid>
		<description>To me the danger isn&#039;t one-party rule, it is that the party in power will put their partisan goals and loyalty to the commander-in-chief ahead of what they think is best for the country. Its government by talking points rather than representative government or the dictates of individual legislators&#039; conscience. I highly doubt that the Founding Fathers had that in mind. George Washington actually warned against uber party loyalty. BTW, I don&#039;t see this as a left-right issue, I&#039;m well aware that all but two in the Democratic party voted for the resolution, so obviously this  occurs on both sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me the danger isn&#8217;t one-party rule, it is that the party in power will put their partisan goals and loyalty to the commander-in-chief ahead of what they think is best for the country. Its government by talking points rather than representative government or the dictates of individual legislators&#8217; conscience. I highly doubt that the Founding Fathers had that in mind. George Washington actually warned against uber party loyalty. BTW, I don&#8217;t see this as a left-right issue, I&#8217;m well aware that all but two in the Democratic party voted for the resolution, so obviously this  occurs on both sides.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53480</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53480</guid>
		<description>Just want to state this, superDD: That the GOP is losing the latinos, depsite their macho culture, is a sign that republicans are offering only sticks and no carrots for this group. Where are those &#039;compassionate&#039; conservatives?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just want to state this, superDD: That the GOP is losing the latinos, depsite their macho culture, is a sign that republicans are offering only sticks and no carrots for this group. Where are those &#8216;compassionate&#8217; conservatives?</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53479</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53479</guid>
		<description>Well, your outlook is quite probable if the GOP doesn&#039;t change course soon, superDD. However, I was only saying that there are independents who are for impeaching Bush, and it seems I&#039;m right. That someone is for impeachment doesn&#039;t necessarily say he&#039;s a Dem. Hell, even some (few) republicans are for this. 

You&#039;re raising an important point here, how demographics impact the parties, but imho this is a very complex topic we shouldn&#039;t disucss in this thread. Would be nice to see a story at TMV about this!
Hello, Joe, Mike, Jason, Shaun etc.? :wink:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, your outlook is quite probable if the GOP doesn&#8217;t change course soon, superDD. However, I was only saying that there are independents who are for impeaching Bush, and it seems I&#8217;m right. That someone is for impeachment doesn&#8217;t necessarily say he&#8217;s a Dem. Hell, even some (few) republicans are for this. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re raising an important point here, how demographics impact the parties, but imho this is a very complex topic we shouldn&#8217;t disucss in this thread. Would be nice to see a story at TMV about this!<br />
Hello, Joe, Mike, Jason, Shaun etc.? <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53475</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53475</guid>
		<description>Gray, 

Look at the 1992 presidential elections. A sitting Republican only received 37% of the vote.  Clinton received 43% of the vote. 18% of the vote was in play and all went to Perot.  I have always interrepted that about 18% of the voters were, in 1992, willing to decide among different candidates. I have always interrepted that, in 1992, 43% of voters would vote Democratic no matter what and 47% would vote Republican no matter what. 

However, since 1992 the percentage of the population that is black, hispanic, or Asian (three groups that vote over 60%) have grown as a percentage of the population while middle class white private sector employed individuals have decreased as a percentage of the population. 

Sometime between 2020 and 2030, the number of people who will automatically vote Democratic will probably go above 50% and the Republican party will be totally irrelevent just like it is irrelevent in DC and in every state north of DC. 

In the near future, the Republcans will probably be able to win an occasional race for govenor like in California but will be totally irrelevent to affectign law making or political policy in the United State just like in California.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gray, </p>
<p>Look at the 1992 presidential elections. A sitting Republican only received 37% of the vote.  Clinton received 43% of the vote. 18% of the vote was in play and all went to Perot.  I have always interrepted that about 18% of the voters were, in 1992, willing to decide among different candidates. I have always interrepted that, in 1992, 43% of voters would vote Democratic no matter what and 47% would vote Republican no matter what. </p>
<p>However, since 1992 the percentage of the population that is black, hispanic, or Asian (three groups that vote over 60%) have grown as a percentage of the population while middle class white private sector employed individuals have decreased as a percentage of the population. </p>
<p>Sometime between 2020 and 2030, the number of people who will automatically vote Democratic will probably go above 50% and the Republican party will be totally irrelevent just like it is irrelevent in DC and in every state north of DC. </p>
<p>In the near future, the Republcans will probably be able to win an occasional race for govenor like in California but will be totally irrelevent to affectign law making or political policy in the United State just like in California.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53472</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53472</guid>
		<description>&quot;the 2008 campaign&quot;? Oops, the 2006 campaign, of course...
&#124;-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the 2008 campaign&#8221;? Oops, the 2006 campaign, of course&#8230;<br />
|-(</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53469</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53469</guid>
		<description>&quot;And actually the Democratic base in about 45% of the voters and is growing due to demographic changes in the United States.&quot;

Hmm. This is one of the polls at the link you provided:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The Harris Poll. Based on nationwide surveys of adults, conducted over the course of each calendar year.
&quot;Regardless of how you may vote, what do you usually consider yourself: a Republican, a Democrat, an independent, or some other party?&quot;
		  	  	  	  	  	
		Republican/Democrat/Independent 	  	  	
		% 	% 	% 	  	  	
	2006 	27 	36 	24 	&lt;/blockquote&gt;

More &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=727&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.
You think, the 2008 campaign resulted in 9% of the voters joining the Dems? check the full timetable of the Harris Poll, this would have been the biggest surge for the Dems ever. Not very likely.
:-/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And actually the Democratic base in about 45% of the voters and is growing due to demographic changes in the United States.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmm. This is one of the polls at the link you provided:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Harris Poll. Based on nationwide surveys of adults, conducted over the course of each calendar year.<br />
&#8220;Regardless of how you may vote, what do you usually consider yourself: a Republican, a Democrat, an independent, or some other party?&#8221;</p>
<p>		Republican/Democrat/Independent<br />
		% 	% 	%<br />
	2006 	27 	36 	24 	</p></blockquote>
<p>More <a href="http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=727" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br />
You think, the 2008 campaign resulted in 9% of the voters joining the Dems? check the full timetable of the Harris Poll, this would have been the biggest surge for the Dems ever. Not very likely.<br />
:-/</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53467</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53467</guid>
		<description>SuperDD, thx for the link. It proves my point:

&lt;blockquote&gt;FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. May 16-18, 2006. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE Â±  3.
&quot;Regardless of how you plan to vote, if the Democrats win this year&#039;s congressional elections do you think it would be right for them to try to impeach President Bush over the Iraq war and weapons of mass destruction, or not?&quot;
                    Would Be Right/Would Not Be Right/Unsure 	  	 
		                % 	% 	% 	  	 
	ALL registered voters 	30 	62 	7 	  	 
	   Democrats 	48 	43 	9 	  	 
	   Republicans 	9 	88 	3 	  	 
	   &lt;strong&gt;Independents 	31&lt;/strong&gt; 	60 	9&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, what did I say? &quot;I donâ€™t see why it should be impossible that moderates are for impeachment?&quot; This FOX poll says that&#039;s true. 31% of independents are for impeachment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SuperDD, thx for the link. It proves my point:</p>
<blockquote><p>FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. May 16-18, 2006. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE Â±  3.<br />
&#8220;Regardless of how you plan to vote, if the Democrats win this year&#8217;s congressional elections do you think it would be right for them to try to impeach President Bush over the Iraq war and weapons of mass destruction, or not?&#8221;<br />
                    Would Be Right/Would Not Be Right/Unsure<br />
		                % 	% 	%<br />
	ALL registered voters 	30 	62 	7<br />
	   Democrats 	48 	43 	9<br />
	   Republicans 	9 	88 	3<br />
	   <strong>Independents 	31</strong> 	60 	9</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, what did I say? &#8220;I donâ€™t see why it should be impossible that moderates are for impeachment?&#8221; This FOX poll says that&#8217;s true. 31% of independents are for impeachment.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Silver</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53462</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Silver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53462</guid>
		<description>I lament the possibility of single party rule and hope the GOP will wake up and adjust accordingly.  They need to create a message that resonates with moderates, independents and middle class - like me.  My preference would be to become the party of &quot;Efficient Government&quot;.  How can the US get the biggest bang for our tax revenue bucks?  What is the most efficient way to manage a tax system, trade system, national debt, health system, entitlement system, reduce environmental degradation, minimize abortion and violent crime, decriminalize victimless crimes... 
I can get excited hearing pragmatic remedies to these issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lament the possibility of single party rule and hope the GOP will wake up and adjust accordingly.  They need to create a message that resonates with moderates, independents and middle class &#8211; like me.  My preference would be to become the party of &#8220;Efficient Government&#8221;.  How can the US get the biggest bang for our tax revenue bucks?  What is the most efficient way to manage a tax system, trade system, national debt, health system, entitlement system, reduce environmental degradation, minimize abortion and violent crime, decriminalize victimless crimes&#8230;<br />
I can get excited hearing pragmatic remedies to these issues.</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53459</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 12:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53459</guid>
		<description>Gary
If you look at http://www.pollingreport.com/bush.htm
It is 30% for impeaching President Bush. I assumed you pulled the 50% from a push poll. 

And actually the Democratic base in about 45% of the voters and is growing due to demographic changes in the United States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary<br />
If you look at <a href="http://www.pollingreport.com/bush.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.pollingreport.com/bush.htm</a><br />
It is 30% for impeaching President Bush. I assumed you pulled the 50% from a push poll. </p>
<p>And actually the Democratic base in about 45% of the voters and is growing due to demographic changes in the United States.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53456</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 12:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53456</guid>
		<description>&quot;I somehow doubt that demanding war crime trials for President Bush is somehow moderate.&quot;

Well, war crime trials may go to far. but I don&#039;t see why it should be impossible that moderates are for impeachment? Check the polls. Almost every second citizen supports this. The Dems don&#039;t have that big a party base, there must be many independents among this group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I somehow doubt that demanding war crime trials for President Bush is somehow moderate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, war crime trials may go to far. but I don&#8217;t see why it should be impossible that moderates are for impeachment? Check the polls. Almost every second citizen supports this. The Dems don&#8217;t have that big a party base, there must be many independents among this group.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53455</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 12:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53455</guid>
		<description>A question that should be asked is, what are the main topics for independent voters, what politics would they support? The Gerstein story, too, copes with this question, but with a wrong approach. Instead of asking, what should a candidate say to be attractive for independents, the question is, what candidates have really, honestly something to offer for this group? This isn&#039;t about lip services, this is about personality and core beliefs. Impersonators better shouldn&#039;t apply at all. 

Intuitively, I&#039;d say, main topics for independents are now the Iraq war and healthcare. On Iraq war, moderates have become weary of Bush simply staying the course endlessly, without any end of misery in sight. A strategy that would put a clear timeline heading towards the end of US engagement in about a year would find many followers. Even moderate republicans fear today that Bush would simply carry on with another doomed plan after another, trying to avoid withdrawal at all costs. They noticed that there isn&#039;t any trustworthy promise that the &#039;surge&#039; plan is really the last try. A candidate who makes a real difference by commiting to a binding plan to end this debacle will be attractive to many voters.

Healthcare is another topics that finds lots of support, cross party lines, as polls show. The idea of making health care obligatory, getting rid of freeloaders, and relieving the business from increasing health care costs makes sense to many conservatives, too. It all depends on the kind of system that&#039;s proposed. &#039;Socialist&#039; healthcare, like in the UK, sure won&#039;t find many followers. But a system that&#039;s backed by the government (through standardisation and anti-discrimination laws like in Massachusetts or the Californai proposal), but actually handled by insurance companies, allowing market forces to work, will be interesting for many voters. Any candidate offering a serious program will have a clear advantage over others who are for &#039;staying the course&#039;. 

Independent voters are always in the position of having to chose between the lesser of two evils. But one thing is certain: A candidate who doesn&#039;t trustworthily present plans on these two main topics will not be taken into consideration at all and should better drop out of the race before becoming a public nuissance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A question that should be asked is, what are the main topics for independent voters, what politics would they support? The Gerstein story, too, copes with this question, but with a wrong approach. Instead of asking, what should a candidate say to be attractive for independents, the question is, what candidates have really, honestly something to offer for this group? This isn&#8217;t about lip services, this is about personality and core beliefs. Impersonators better shouldn&#8217;t apply at all. </p>
<p>Intuitively, I&#8217;d say, main topics for independents are now the Iraq war and healthcare. On Iraq war, moderates have become weary of Bush simply staying the course endlessly, without any end of misery in sight. A strategy that would put a clear timeline heading towards the end of US engagement in about a year would find many followers. Even moderate republicans fear today that Bush would simply carry on with another doomed plan after another, trying to avoid withdrawal at all costs. They noticed that there isn&#8217;t any trustworthy promise that the &#8216;surge&#8217; plan is really the last try. A candidate who makes a real difference by commiting to a binding plan to end this debacle will be attractive to many voters.</p>
<p>Healthcare is another topics that finds lots of support, cross party lines, as polls show. The idea of making health care obligatory, getting rid of freeloaders, and relieving the business from increasing health care costs makes sense to many conservatives, too. It all depends on the kind of system that&#8217;s proposed. &#8216;Socialist&#8217; healthcare, like in the UK, sure won&#8217;t find many followers. But a system that&#8217;s backed by the government (through standardisation and anti-discrimination laws like in Massachusetts or the Californai proposal), but actually handled by insurance companies, allowing market forces to work, will be interesting for many voters. Any candidate offering a serious program will have a clear advantage over others who are for &#8216;staying the course&#8217;. </p>
<p>Independent voters are always in the position of having to chose between the lesser of two evils. But one thing is certain: A candidate who doesn&#8217;t trustworthily present plans on these two main topics will not be taken into consideration at all and should better drop out of the race before becoming a public nuissance.</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53453</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53453</guid>
		<description>Gray, 

If you looked at the comments on the single post, virtually everyone one was called for either impeachment of President Bush, war crime trials for President Bush, or were giddy with the prospects of single party rule in the United States. 

I somehow doubt that demanding war crime trials for President Bush is somehow moderate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gray, </p>
<p>If you looked at the comments on the single post, virtually everyone one was called for either impeachment of President Bush, war crime trials for President Bush, or were giddy with the prospects of single party rule in the United States. </p>
<p>I somehow doubt that demanding war crime trials for President Bush is somehow moderate.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53447</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53447</guid>
		<description>&quot;Some folks get angry when they see posts by independent voters who are highly critical of the Bush administration and the GOP.&quot;

Indeed, indeed, Joe. SuperDD is just one of those angry folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Some folks get angry when they see posts by independent voters who are highly critical of the Bush administration and the GOP.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed, indeed, Joe. SuperDD is just one of those angry folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53446</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53446</guid>
		<description>&quot;After reading the comments at Americablog, I found it humorous that such far leftist were commenting on Republicans losing the few moderate votes that Republicans receive.&quot;
SuperDD, for you, almost anybody not on your side is a &quot;far leftist&quot;. What does this say about your position, hmm?

Also, pls note that John Aravosis worked as an advisor for a republican Senator (I guess it was Stevens) and still holds right wing views on foreign policy, for instance about Lebanon (he was for striking Hezbollah). His main interest are gay and lesbian issues, for instance gay marriage and discrimination of gays in the military and elsewhere. His views aren&#039;t so far from Rudi Giuliani&#039;s, just for a comparison. It&#039;s certainly not his fault that fundamentalist &#039;christians&#039; hijacked the GOP and succeeded in their anti-gay drive, pushing many moderate republicans out of the party. 

So, AMERICAblog isn&#039;t simply a &#039;leftist&#039; blog, and many of its readers are moderate and even republican. There are some    lively discussions there, and I&#039;m not suprised that many of the regular readers are very interested on the state of moderate voices in the GOP. Imho there would be a great potential for a moderate republican candidate like Hagel. Gladly, the religious extremists won&#039;t let this happen, effectively enhancing the Democratic chances for 2008. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;After reading the comments at Americablog, I found it humorous that such far leftist were commenting on Republicans losing the few moderate votes that Republicans receive.&#8221;<br />
SuperDD, for you, almost anybody not on your side is a &#8220;far leftist&#8221;. What does this say about your position, hmm?</p>
<p>Also, pls note that John Aravosis worked as an advisor for a republican Senator (I guess it was Stevens) and still holds right wing views on foreign policy, for instance about Lebanon (he was for striking Hezbollah). His main interest are gay and lesbian issues, for instance gay marriage and discrimination of gays in the military and elsewhere. His views aren&#8217;t so far from Rudi Giuliani&#8217;s, just for a comparison. It&#8217;s certainly not his fault that fundamentalist &#8216;christians&#8217; hijacked the GOP and succeeded in their anti-gay drive, pushing many moderate republicans out of the party. </p>
<p>So, AMERICAblog isn&#8217;t simply a &#8216;leftist&#8217; blog, and many of its readers are moderate and even republican. There are some    lively discussions there, and I&#8217;m not suprised that many of the regular readers are very interested on the state of moderate voices in the GOP. Imho there would be a great potential for a moderate republican candidate like Hagel. Gladly, the religious extremists won&#8217;t let this happen, effectively enhancing the Democratic chances for 2008. <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10959/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/comment-page-1/#comment-53443</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/weve-said-from-the-start-watch-the-independent-voters/#comment-53443</guid>
		<description>After reading the comments at Americablog, I found it humorous that such far leftist were commenting on Republicans losing the few moderate votes that Republicans receive. 

The real problem for Republicans is that there are few real moderates in the United States and there are actually few votes that are ever in play in the United States.  Every presidental election is over about 10% of the voters because 90% of the voters automatically vote for one party or the other. 

The real problem for the Republicans is that soon, less than 50% of the voters will even considering voting for any Republican candidate.  The Republicans know this and thus they is why President Bush has made stupid proposals about immigration or entitlements in a futile attempt to appeal to growing demographic groups that do not morally vote Republicans. 

Every attempt by the Republicans to develop new voters has been a dismal failure and have hurt their prospects for the future. The Republicans do not have credibility on any issue and thus have no prospects for winning new voters. 

Thus, the future of the U.S., is to become a single party state where the agenda it set by the left side of the Democratic Party. In the future, the only important election will be the Democratic Primary. And given campaign finance reform, all election could become meaningless in the future because only block votes by certain demographic groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading the comments at Americablog, I found it humorous that such far leftist were commenting on Republicans losing the few moderate votes that Republicans receive. </p>
<p>The real problem for Republicans is that there are few real moderates in the United States and there are actually few votes that are ever in play in the United States.  Every presidental election is over about 10% of the voters because 90% of the voters automatically vote for one party or the other. </p>
<p>The real problem for the Republicans is that soon, less than 50% of the voters will even considering voting for any Republican candidate.  The Republicans know this and thus they is why President Bush has made stupid proposals about immigration or entitlements in a futile attempt to appeal to growing demographic groups that do not morally vote Republicans. </p>
<p>Every attempt by the Republicans to develop new voters has been a dismal failure and have hurt their prospects for the future. The Republicans do not have credibility on any issue and thus have no prospects for winning new voters. </p>
<p>Thus, the future of the U.S., is to become a single party state where the agenda it set by the left side of the Democratic Party. In the future, the only important election will be the Democratic Primary. And given campaign finance reform, all election could become meaningless in the future because only block votes by certain demographic groups.</p>
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