Gray: Your link only makes the point, with only a handful of the storms topping 100 mph. That’s not near a Katrina nor the big storms that regularly track across the Caribbean, and that does not include the hundreds of tornadoes in Tornado Alley, at which Louisiana is at the southern tip of.
Also, tides are a force that is diffused across the whole of a coastline, thus has less impact than water gushing out of a delta- or single source, and with cubic feet, if Ole Miss’s volume is 8x the Rhine, its energy is 64x.

So, to summarize. NO is at the base of a river system dozens of times stronger than the Low Countries, is wracked by tornadoes and cyclonic storms that dwarf Europe’s, and is built upon allvium. That the city has lasted this long is miraculous. It’s a sinkhole, literally and financially, and I don’t want my money wasted on another project the gov’t will screw up- another factor!

Keep making my points for me, but the payroll’s kind’a thin!

However:
“The Big Muddy is almost 8x as powerful.”
That’s why I mentioned the tide. About 0.8 feet (~0.25m) vs. 1.7 m or so. The North Sea is almost 7 times as powerful

“The other places do not experience hurricanes nor tornadoes!”
No, we call that kind of storm “Orkan“:
“A European windstorm is a severe cyclonic storm that tracks across the North Atlantic towards northwestern Europe in the winter months. These storms usually track over the north coast of Scotland towards Norway but can veer south to affect other countries including Ireland, Wales, England, Switzerland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Lithuania, Latvia, and Poland. As these storms can generate hurricane-force winds (and sometimes even winds at the strength of major hurricanes), they are sometimes referred to as hurricanes, even though very few originate as tropical cyclones.”

“New Orleans has experienced floods from both directions, cause by storms from behind, as well as the Gulf below.”
D’oh again! North Sea Islands are surrounded by water on all four sides, but they have adequate flood protection, and the buildings are on artificial knolls. Also, you may want to study the location of Netherland city Amsterdam on a map

Well, nice try, Cosmo, but I suggest next time you better check your facts first before engaging in a pi…, uh, in an ‘american idol’ like contest…

Gray: Per http://www.rev.net/~aloe/river/

The Mississippi has a cubic meters per second watre discharge of over 17,500, vs. the Rhine’s 2200. The Big Muddy is almost 8x as powerful. That’s a ‘no contest’ in anyone’s book, and why New Orleans is far more dangerous a place to live. Also, the power generated in the warm Gulf Of Mexico dwarfs those of the cold North Sea. I’ve known Brits who’ve lived through American hurricanes, and there’s no comparison.

Doc, still strawmanning. Your photos prove my point. The other places do not experience hurricanes nor tornadoes! Against them, the pictured structures would be utterly useless! New Orleans has experienced floods from both directions, cause by storms from behind, as well as the Gulf below.

It was built in a dangerous place, and the time has come to admit it.

Doc:
it’s spelt PIFFLE:

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=piffle

Main Entry: 1pif·fle
Pronunciation: ‘pi-f&l
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): pif·fled; pif·fling /-f(&-)li[ng]/
Etymology: perhaps blend of piddle and trifle
: to talk or act in a trivial, inept, or ineffective way

Now, it would be a first if Gray and Doc crooned a collective ‘D’oh!’ C’mon, guys. American Idol awaits!

http://ashleymorris.typepad.com/ashley_morris_the_blog/2006/11/for_our_new_gov.html

Yes, these are the actual flood walls we have toprotect us. Thamkyou Uncle Sam!

Another fine example of strawmanning- arguing against something that was never claimed nor hinted at. It makes the rest of yor post piffle.

Davebo: Two things against NO that Holland does not have to deal with- 1) the output of the Mississippi 2) Gulf storms. If you actually read the latter part of the selection you quoted, that wd have explained away yr point.

But the USA shd not waste trillions of $ for Netherlands style dams that may not forestall rising seas, and will do nothing against atmospheric storms.

Why not? They did and it’s a fantastic system. NO below sea level? Big deal! It’s not 15 meters below sea level!

Holy cow- do you realize how callous AND provincial that is?

Look, Glaciers are sliding off of Greenland 4x as quickly as previously believed, and Antarctica is similarly melting. NO has been a cesspool for years- I worked with a few dozen NO refugees in Austin, and most ain’t going back- life’s better elsewhere.

As for culture- in NO vs. Galveston. Culture is never a place, but the people, it can reassemble anywhere. But the USA shd not waste trillions of $ for Netherlands style dams that may not forestall rising seas, and will do nothing against atmospheric storms.

NO is also, unlike Manhattan and parts of Long Island, built upon bedrock, but alluvium.

Pull the plug, and move the city a few hundred miles up the Big Muddy.

Why hasn’t there been executive and legislative initiatives to correct laws and regulations that are hampering the reconstruction effort? This should be a no brainer!

The numbers for FEMA reconstruction efforts are devastating, only a few hundred house owners received moneys, thousands are still waiting, almost 18 months after Katrina? What’s gouing wrong there and why doesn’t Bush weigh in?

In the light of the experiences from Katrina, where are the bills trying to correct the known problems, for instance that flood insurance is only optional? Isn’t the US running the risk that exactly the same scenario may happen this year?

Have to run now, but I will be back to the discussion. CU l8r!

You should look at http://www.floods.org/home/default.asp . There are a variety of regulations and enforcement mechanisms for compliance with flood plain regulations. In addition, section 304 of the Clean Water Act would define any flood plane as a “waterways of the United States” and would especially apply to any areas below sea level.

Also, for the government to take actions such as changing flood plain regulation, the Corps of Engineers, FEMA, and the EPA would have to conduct an Enviromental Impact State IAW the National Environmental Protection Act. Those take years to do and are currently designed to give activist the maximum ability to slow things down. Also, local zoning regulations and local master planning regulations have to be complied with before rebuilding can begin.

It is different when someone wants to rebuild their own home in Florida after a Hurricane since virtually all homeowners in Florida carry hurricane insurance.

The problems in NO are compounded in that many of the residents were renters and rebuilding a rental property is much harder than rebuilding an existing single family home and since many people in NO (and the entire Gulf Coast) opted not to have flood insurance. Flood insurance is not something that is normally included in a homeowners policy but has to purchase separately and is purchased directly from the government.

This one of the compliances you talkin’ about, suprDD? It’s an executive order! Bush can change this with a stroke of a pen. Why didn’t he do this, if this really is a hurdle for the reconstruction? Well, maybe because it isn’t. It’s talking about development, not about rebuilding already developed areas. And is there any practicable alternative in this case? Maybe forcing the residents to rebuild in New Mexico (much lower risk of catastrophic floods there)???

That’s interesting, would you pls elaborate on this? Afaik, judging by the reports from NO bloggers, there isn’t much of a rebuiling effort, diue to lack of funds. Where exactly is the city rebuilding in violence of government regulations? The main problem seems to be that most property owners still haven’t received any moneys from FEMA. That’s not the fault of NO.

“If you have a specific case where the Clinton Admnstration rushed through the the flood plain compliance, the clean water act compliance, and the EIS process, I would love to hear it but I doubt that you can find one.”
Could you pls reword this, so a foreign reader can understand it? What are you speaking about, the Clinton administration ‘rushing through’ a law (= supporting it in the House), or ‘rushing through’ actions, in spite of those laws?

“I also find it racist that many people have argued that the blacks in NO just cannot help themselves.”
If someone would argue that the blacks need help, and whites don’t this would be racist, indeed. But I suspect you’re building a strawmen here, since you’re the only one I have ever seen making this arguement. Really, where are the people who say only the blacks cannot help themselves? There are poor white folks in NO, too, who lost their house and haven’t received any help for rebuilding. This isn’t about black or white folks, it’s about all the victims.

“So are Republicans in the federal government suppose to come in, override local control, and treat the blacks in NO like children who are just not smart enough to stop fouling their own nest?”
They are supposed to come in, work together with local authorities, and treat all victims equally, regardless of race, but considering the need, and help them overcoming the consequences of Katrina. This smear arguement about children and “fouling their own nest” is just something you inserted to divert attention from the failure of the feds to live up to Bush’s promises and to their own mission statement.

I work in environmental compliance and I can tell you that the laws are designed to make big government projects very hard to do. They were hard under the Clinton Administration and they are even harder under the Bush Administration. During the Depression, it took the government about five years to plan and build Boulder Dam. It is estimated that the Environmental Impact State alone would take over a decade and the project would take over 20 years.

Also, all reform laws are designed to make the goverment decision cycle very slow. Clinton did not attempt many things because of this such as a true downsize of the military. Look at the BRAC process and you will find that the 1993 BRAC process had not been comleted by 2000.

Currently, N.O. is trying to rebuild in a flood plain in violation of government funding regulations and trying to do it without an EIS. How are private builders suppose to get contraction loans to rebuild in a flood plain? People complain about the EPA and other environmental regulationns but thos agencies are not allowed to consider economic hardships when deciding policy and regulatory implementation. That is something that “progressives” and environmentalist insisted upon.

If you have a specific case where the Clinton Admnstration rushed through the the flood plain compliance, the clean water act compliance, and the EIS process, I would love to hear it but I doubt that you can find one.

I also find it racist that many people have argued that the blacks in NO just cannot help themselves. So are Republicans in the federal government suppose to come in, override local control, and treat the blacks in NO like children who are just not smart enough to stop fouling their own nest?