Well, wtf? Pace obviously hasn’t seen the evidence on the Iranian sniper rifles showing up in Iraq. Imho this puts the story in an even more fuzzy light. Really, does this evidence even exist?

Thx for supporting this view, DaveA! I already felt like an alien here or insisting on hard evidence instead of hearsay…

http://www.luvtohunt.com/steyermannlicher.htm

Not a big deal, but it takes like 20 seconds for me to find thi. If the writer can’t be bothered to do that amount of checking it does not bode to well for accuracy…

In any event, yes the Austrian governement support and reciepts would go a long way to proving something. Frankly W&Co has lied so many times that the bar is rather high on proof – say so is waaay not enough. I would be willing to believe it, but I need more substansive proof first

GIven that

the (in)famous Powell presentation

Side note: this is why I don’t buy into the fact that Robert Gates brings legitimacy. Wasn’t Powell supposed to be a source of legitimacy? The administration used his credibility to perpetuate a farce.

Fool me once … er … won’t be … um …

Indeed, Rudi. So, where are those documents? If that Guardian correspondent would have seen them, he would have said so. No, all there is right now are unknown officials saying that this happened, and leaving the impression that there must be documents. That’s lame.

I stay sceptical until reliable persons have seen all this evidence or it is presented to the public in the MSM. A statement by an unknown source isn’t good enough, this is on about the same level as the (in)famous Powell presentation.

Not to mention that the Saudis have about $750 billion invested in our Stock Markets too…scary, isn’t it?

Hahahahahaha…yah, in the dust of the Iranian arguments by our compatriots, the Saudi connection is lost

You know, if one started doing a body count – 9-11 + Saudi suicide bombers in Iraq + Saudi financed al-Quada operations in Iraq – I would bet the number of dead Americans from Saudi sources far dwarfs anything from Iranians and Shi’a militias.

I know this estimation may not rise to the standards of evidence demanded here…but I think it is a fair bet.

Will the AP send reporters to investigate this? Nope. Not since the Gulf States invested a couple hundred million in an AP service solely for the Gulf.

Will members of Congress demand it? Nope. Not with Saudi defense contracts keeping plants open in key districts.

So it goes…

Ok, you’ve got a point here. Still I think this was somewhat over the top. I’m sceptical, but I’m not in total denial…

OK, fair enough, Gray. What I said about my impression of your comments was provocative, but it was meant to get you to examine how you really felt about this and explain whether or not there was some level of evidence that would be convincing to you.

Rudi,
You are a more intelligent version of a Bush doubter. You have healthy suspicion, not the kind that I’m criticizing. Read Gray’s comments and contrast them with yours.

CS Thanks for your comment. I have also made the same arguments to the Iran nuke scare to deaf ears .

As I comment above, if Powell and W put out a professional ‘failure analysis’ I could believe them. But after aluminum tubes and mobile weapons labs only the Bushinistas believe them now. I am waiting to see Prez Wackjob on my milkcarton any day now…..

I was curious about public opinion, and whether it could be swayed at all… or whether it would make a difference one way or another to the wider situation.

Sure. Separate the situation from Bush. Then you can change things. Again, just guessing here, but the entire situation is tied to Bush. You can’t discuss it without discussing Bush.

Separate it from Bush, and you might get changes.

The serial numbers would be a record like VIN on automobiles, date of build and coutry of origin.
A stenciled ’sell milk by’ on a RPG that could come from seven countries with ties to the ME was an embarressing bit of BS by the Pentagon.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1998/infantry-rpg.htm

Today, it is part of the TO&E of over 40 different countries’ armies and several of these countries, besides Russia, are licensed to build their own.(1) Other manufacturers include Bulgaria, China, Iran, Iraq, Romania and Pakistan.

The Austrian report is a warm gun, the Pentagon slide show was BullShi*. If an automotive enginner presented that BS as a ‘failure analysis’ or ‘reliability report’ they could lose their job.

Even if we could all reach out, touch, and believe evidence — even if Iranian officials decided to publicly affirm their involvement — do y’all think that would affect the course of events in Iraq, or our stance with Iran?

Or how about this: are we naieve enough to believe that Iranian involvement in Iraq would end if we left? They aren’t there just because we are there. They’re there to their advantage.

I think we really need to start asking the question, “What can we do that is best for us?”

It’s a simple question. It doesn’t force us to respond to what the terrorists “want” or what the Iranians “want” or what all those bad guys “want”. Simply, what is best for us?

Yet we ask, “Will people believe our President if he does something he has never done before?” Then we assume, “Of course they won’t.” Then we debate.

because I can’t see how evidence can overcome that degree of skepticism.

That does not make it so.

I find it depressingly enlightening to see how the arguments are now whether or not people will accept the president’s evidence should he ever come up with any evidence.

Isn’t that what this whole thread is supposed to be about?

If President Bush were able to produce reasonable evidence that Iran were involved in Iraq, would people believe him?

I find that question funny and sad. Of course Iran is involved. And of course people would believe overwhelming and reasonable evidence. What I assume (just guessing here) many don’t want to do is use underwhelming, anonymous lack of evidence, cooked up evidence, or even reasonable evidence, to justify yet another war.

Yet the questions aren’t whether or not we can provide reasonable evidence or convince the public that the government is working for them (and not against them). The question is whether or not people will believe Bush when he does what he has never done to date. And the emphasis is put on those who believe that people are what they are.

Ok, you’ve got a point here. Still I think this was somewhat over the top. I’m sceptical, but I’m not in total denial…

Even if we could all reach out, touch, and believe evidence — even if Iranian officials decided to publicly affirm their involvement — do y’all think that would affect the course of events in Iraq, or our stance with Iran?

Thanks for addressing my question…too bad no one else is. You’re right, Saudi oil money goes way far…