It would be quite another thing to Have GWB leading the chant would it not? To have a man like the Iranian president hosting this conference is a little bit more then your comparison to a backwater meeting of a few whackos in Alabama.”

Ah got a dig in on Alabama, I live in Alabama and infact was referring to places like Idaho since the KKK has no home here anymore. You need to update your knowledge of the US as well apparently. I won’t go on any further since you are only really pissing me off with your lack of knowledge of your own backyard, and ignorance based in 1960’s thinking.

Again John Howard speaks up and says a little nitpicky bad thing about everybodys favorite Obama and you guys are up in arms as the LEADER OF AUSTRAILIA is this that or the other. BUT if this insane president hosts a anti semite, holocost denying festival then “AHHH peshaw its just some idiots havin fun.”

WE are all guilty of using the OCCAM RAZOR with our facts, figures and rhetoric. ALL OF US.

Rudi I suggest you are trying really hard to Institute Occams here because you just dont want to face the fact that the man in charge is a RADICAL NUT….not dissimilar to the ones who are packing trucks full of explosives and blowing people up willy nilly. This supports for me not denys the existence of a mentality that they would sustain 30,000 dead to destroy 4 million jews and radiate Israel to the extent that it would not be able to be inhabited for the next 50 years.

The Ayotollah’s hope is that Israel in its outrage would nuke Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and a whole host of other Muslim countries as well…..thus effectively setting the state for a world wide war of god awful proportions. The outrage would be at Israel, the US and anyone perceived as sympathetic to ISRAEL. The Muslims In these countries would riot in the streets, rise up and start bombing mothers in malls or whatever carnage they could prevent.

Am I using Occams razor here…….prolly. But I am also trying to think ahead, think like the Iranians, and then project that look at what a few simple cartoons did. Imagine what smoldering Muslim Cities would do to the Muslim Population of the world.

Yes If we trully want Armageddon then perhaps we should do nothing, Listen to Hillary and have fireside Chats, or Listen to Obama and pull out and make the Sunnis and Shia then sue each other for peace.

My scenario is exactly why the Governments in Europe have climbed on Board with the USA over this issue. They know what the stakes are. They know they have a lot of Radical and irrate Muslims living in their countries now and they dont want to be fighting in their own streets because of some nitwit in IRAN.

Put down occams razor a minute and think this thru. When France thinks Iran is a threat despite what their leader has said…….”I look at what the Americans do and then do the opposite, that way I know Im right.”……then I would be very afraid of this man and his intentions.

You guys continue to use western logic, and reasoning on eastern Nutjobs.

Bingo. So many people look at another country and try to apply the same values. Female genital cutting would be considered barbaric here. One would think a parent would never do such a thing to a child. BUT THEY DO! The theory of mutually assured destruction worked in the cold war between the US and Russia. But you would be foolish to make that gamble with some countries in the East.

George, Wikipedia doesn’t really count as an authoritative source for anything.

Your welcome, the sources I gave also are listed at the GS Wiki link, Wiki isn’t that far off.

You guys continue to use western logic, and reasoning on eastern Nutjobs.

He is basically saying lets nuke Israel, take a whalloping and force the entire world to rise up against the USA, west and what little is left of Israel. In other words he wants WORLD WIDE JIHAD in its ugliest form and his president is mindfully voicing his leaders wants and desires over and over again.

Its the Mullah running the show. The Mullah wants Nukes. Read post one for his quote. The Mullah Wants to use those nukes and does not care if his country smoulders because he believes its his destiny to lead the world into Total Annhilation for the sake of the Caliphate.

It would be quite another thing to Have GWB leading the chant would it not? To have a man like the Iranian president hosting this conference is a little bit more then your comparison to a backwater meeting of a few whackos in Alabama.

No actually I stand amazed at your posts most of the time. I didnt realize there were Moderate/Conservatives in Europe. Will Miracles never cease.

You don’t have to like the Wikipedia, but, as I said, the article does have a long list of sources at the end.

George, Wikipedia doesn’t really count as an authoritative source for anything.

It’s funny how there are many calls about not taking our perspective for granted, but how little discussed their perspective is outside the national propaganda. It’s akin to thinking our politicians ever represent our citizens’ perspective.

It’s always good to try and understand who propaganda targets.

I’m not sure I agree totally with the generalization of Iranians, though, as “pretty urbane, relatively secular and rational”. I understand that to be true of the folks in Tehran, but I have a more parochial impression of the less urban areas / villages.

Which is not to say that Iran wouldn’t be hoping to rally Arab support (or at least neutrality) if they end up in a war with the US — all by itself, a reason for propaganda.

But I’m also not sure this is Iran’s propaganda…

Michael quite graciously opines that we’ll give those Persians a bit more time to come groveling at our feet. No groveling, no problem – we’ll just kill’em. I hope all of us are mature enough to understand our bias. Most people here value American and Israeli lives on a scale that far exceeds the life of those dirty muslims. At least Bibi is open about his contempt for muslims. In November, I heard him give a speech at a synagogue in Ariel which he stated, “all the lives in Iran are not worth one Jew”, and he was greeted with whistles and joyous clapping. In his speech he said a military offensive that just tried to take out their nuclear sites would be ineffective since they would reconstitute it quickly and they would create havoc in the region like a wounded animal. No, he said, Iran would have to be completely destroyed so it would “never again” pose a threat to Israel. He then said – we have just the weapons for the task. Think about what this really means.

Bibi is currently the front runner in the next Presidential polls – it’s a race to see who is the scariest, Netanyahu or Ahmadinejad. Don’t under estimate what a frightened and paranoid Israel might do.

When I said “In some cases it seems like the line between propaganda and actions unfold relatively slowly (like Kristallnacht/forced relocation into ghettos under Nazi Germany were clear signs Hitler was going to actually do what he said)” I mean that in hindsight, there was no way that people should have denied he was serious and going to try to do it after those events occured. From the German Jewish standpoint of course they assumed it’d be like all the progroms of the past and they just had to weather through it, but from an external perspective I don’t see how people could try to dismiss it.

Now as was pointed out a few days ago, considering it’s a human rights crime for a leader to even threaten genocide, even if someone thinks Iran doesn’t mean it they should still be held accountable.

But it doesn’t do much good to point out retroactively the times when propaganda was put into action without pointing out that most of the time it’s not. The “Hitler did do it” response doesn’t help much for figuring out what we should do unless you can point out specific things he did that should have caused us to act and how those weren’t present in other cases.

I’m curious to see if there’s been much study on this, and am actually concerned that it might be impossible to figure out when something is seriously going to happen or not until it’s already too late.