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	<title>Comments on: Update: A Disturbing Trend in Iraq Helicopter Crashes</title>
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		<title>By: The Moderate Voice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; New Baghdad Plan: A Recipe For Disaster?</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10807/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-52743</link>
		<dc:creator>The Moderate Voice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; New Baghdad Plan: A Recipe For Disaster?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/#comment-52743</guid>
		<description>[...] More on the announcement here.    Posted on February 14, 2007 &#124; Permalink &#124; Categories Iraq &#124; &#124; View blog reactions &amp;#187       &quot;&gt;Comment #1 &quot;&gt;Gray said,  February 14, 2007 at 3:57 am Business as usual in Baghdad. The&#8216;government&#8217; starts another thinly veiled campaign targetting Sunnis who already were victims of ethnical cleansing, and the US simply trots along. How is the situation supposed to improve this way? &#124;-(     &quot;&gt;Comment #2 &quot;&gt;Gray said,  February 14, 2007 at 4:10 am Yawn. Slow comments day. All Europeans still asleep? :-/     &quot;&gt;Comment #3 &quot;&gt;Gray said,  February 14, 2007 at 4:31 am Btw, another story ourced on unnamed &#8216;officials&#8217; is making rounds right now: Al Sadr Fled Iraq, Fearing U.S. Bombs [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More on the announcement here.    Posted on February 14, 2007 | Permalink | Categories Iraq | | View blog reactions &amp;#187       &#8220;&gt;Comment #1 &#8220;&gt;Gray said,  February 14, 2007 at 3:57 am Business as usual in Baghdad. The&#8216;government&#8217; starts another thinly veiled campaign targetting Sunnis who already were victims of ethnical cleansing, and the US simply trots along. How is the situation supposed to improve this way? |-(     &#8220;&gt;Comment #2 &#8220;&gt;Gray said,  February 14, 2007 at 4:10 am Yawn. Slow comments day. All Europeans still asleep? :-/     &#8220;&gt;Comment #3 &#8220;&gt;Gray said,  February 14, 2007 at 4:31 am Btw, another story ourced on unnamed &#8216;officials&#8217; is making rounds right now: Al Sadr Fled Iraq, Fearing U.S. Bombs [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alan G</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10807/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-51537</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 21:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/#comment-51537</guid>
		<description>Surprisingly, I actually might agree with Upinsmoke.  I might well matter where these weapons come from, especially if there&#039;s a larger strategy involved:

1.  New IEDs using explosively-formed projectiles prove deadly against ground convoys, so the military emphasizes helicopters.
2.  New shoulder-fired missiles prove increasingly deadly to helicopters, forcing the military back to using ground convoys, which take heavy casualties from the new IEDs.

A no-win situation.  It hasn&#039;t come about yet, but the possibility exists that precisely this sort of situation is being engineered by someone.

PS:  I really wouldn&#039;t say &quot;Chinamen&quot;, not very PC these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surprisingly, I actually might agree with Upinsmoke.  I might well matter where these weapons come from, especially if there&#8217;s a larger strategy involved:</p>
<p>1.  New IEDs using explosively-formed projectiles prove deadly against ground convoys, so the military emphasizes helicopters.<br />
2.  New shoulder-fired missiles prove increasingly deadly to helicopters, forcing the military back to using ground convoys, which take heavy casualties from the new IEDs.</p>
<p>A no-win situation.  It hasn&#8217;t come about yet, but the possibility exists that precisely this sort of situation is being engineered by someone.</p>
<p>PS:  I really wouldn&#8217;t say &#8220;Chinamen&#8221;, not very PC these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynx</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10807/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-51528</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/#comment-51528</guid>
		<description>I gotta say, shocking as it is, UIS has a point. Suppliers do matter. If there are a million of these babies in Iraq already such that no more are needed than OK, they have to be found and confiscated/destroyed. Otherwise, finding the suppliers, and closing down the routes of supply, is essential. According to the link:

&lt;blockquote&gt;An intelligence source indicates &quot;a large batch of these Strelas were transfered to al-Qaeda,&quot; but would not identify the country of origin. We noted, based one multiple sources, the likelihood is Iran is providing the weapons to al-Qaeda, and the timing of the activation of these cells is too close to the rise in tensions between Iran and the U.S. to be a coincidence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t think anyone would be surprised if they turned out to be coming from Iran. The issue is what you do about it. The borders are vast and declaring war with Iran (save imminent threat of massive attack, a &lt;em&gt;real&lt;/em&gt; one, not invented like last time) is insanity,  but you can&#039;t sit back and do nothing. And it&#039;s certainly not irrelevant. What if it&#039;s our &quot;allies&quot; in Saudi Arabia? It&#039;s certainly relevant to the way we treat the collaborating country, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta say, shocking as it is, UIS has a point. Suppliers do matter. If there are a million of these babies in Iraq already such that no more are needed than OK, they have to be found and confiscated/destroyed. Otherwise, finding the suppliers, and closing down the routes of supply, is essential. According to the link:</p>
<blockquote><p>An intelligence source indicates &#8220;a large batch of these Strelas were transfered to al-Qaeda,&#8221; but would not identify the country of origin. We noted, based one multiple sources, the likelihood is Iran is providing the weapons to al-Qaeda, and the timing of the activation of these cells is too close to the rise in tensions between Iran and the U.S. to be a coincidence.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone would be surprised if they turned out to be coming from Iran. The issue is what you do about it. The borders are vast and declaring war with Iran (save imminent threat of massive attack, a <em>real</em> one, not invented like last time) is insanity,  but you can&#8217;t sit back and do nothing. And it&#8217;s certainly not irrelevant. What if it&#8217;s our &#8220;allies&#8221; in Saudi Arabia? It&#8217;s certainly relevant to the way we treat the collaborating country, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Upinsmoke</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10807/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-51517</link>
		<dc:creator>Upinsmoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/#comment-51517</guid>
		<description>No its not beside the point where they are coming from at all.  Finding out is key to knowing the dynamics of the situation of what is transpiring in IRaq.

If these missiles had been in Iraq since day 1.  100&#039;s of helicopters and Aircraft would have been shot down by now.  The insurgents if they had there hands on these would have been using them as soon as possible.

This is a startling and new development that is precisely to the crux of the matter.  Who is now suddenly suppling these weapons?

Are they being stolen by Iraqis from their own armories?  Are the Iranians, Saudis, N. Koreans, Jordanians, Chinamen supplying these weapons?

This is an extremely crucial question.  Shaun I think the fact you would say where they come from is almost besides the point implies you really dont understand the big picture here.  

That is non constructive and its unfair to the boys and girls riding on those helicopters.  Who is supplying these weapons IS the story here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No its not beside the point where they are coming from at all.  Finding out is key to knowing the dynamics of the situation of what is transpiring in IRaq.</p>
<p>If these missiles had been in Iraq since day 1.  100&#8242;s of helicopters and Aircraft would have been shot down by now.  The insurgents if they had there hands on these would have been using them as soon as possible.</p>
<p>This is a startling and new development that is precisely to the crux of the matter.  Who is now suddenly suppling these weapons?</p>
<p>Are they being stolen by Iraqis from their own armories?  Are the Iranians, Saudis, N. Koreans, Jordanians, Chinamen supplying these weapons?</p>
<p>This is an extremely crucial question.  Shaun I think the fact you would say where they come from is almost besides the point implies you really dont understand the big picture here.  </p>
<p>That is non constructive and its unfair to the boys and girls riding on those helicopters.  Who is supplying these weapons IS the story here.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10807/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-51494</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/#comment-51494</guid>
		<description>Shaun - What&#039;s the latest word on the no fly zone and WH officials? The press seems to ignore the fact that SAMs are on the world market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun &#8211; What&#8217;s the latest word on the no fly zone and WH officials? The press seems to ignore the fact that SAMs are on the world market.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun Mullen</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10807/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-51488</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun Mullen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/#comment-51488</guid>
		<description>The surface-to-air missile market is global.  It is almost beside the point about where these missiles came from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The surface-to-air missile market is global.  It is almost beside the point about where these missiles came from.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10807/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-51485</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/#comment-51485</guid>
		<description>UIS - According to anarticle from Hackworth the SAM&#039;s have been in Iraq from day one. Other current sources link the SAM traffic to Eastern Europe.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target.db&amp;command=viewone&amp;op=t&amp;id=55&amp;rnd=834.4996680930711&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hack&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;01-26-2004
Hack&#039;s Target
Choppers Down in Iraq

When Saddam was in the saddle, he purchased at least 5,000 SA-7s and SA-16s, and so far our occupation forces have accounted for only about 1,500 of the heat-seeking Russian missiles, known for their deadly accuracy if fired by well-trained shooters.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UIS &#8211; According to anarticle from Hackworth the SAM&#8217;s have been in Iraq from day one. Other current sources link the SAM traffic to Eastern Europe.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target.db&amp;command=viewone&amp;op=t&amp;id=55&amp;rnd=834.4996680930711" rel="nofollow">Hack</a></p>
<blockquote><p>01-26-2004<br />
Hack&#8217;s Target<br />
Choppers Down in Iraq</p>
<p>When Saddam was in the saddle, he purchased at least 5,000 SA-7s and SA-16s, and so far our occupation forces have accounted for only about 1,500 of the heat-seeking Russian missiles, known for their deadly accuracy if fired by well-trained shooters.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Upinsmoke</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10807/update-a-distrubing-trend-in-iraq-helicopter-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-51471</link>
		<dc:creator>Upinsmoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 16:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Which again begs the question of just where are these weapons coming from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which again begs the question of just where are these weapons coming from?</p>
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