Did Karl Rove Stick His Foot In His Mouth?
Question: Did White House political maven Karl Rove stick his foot in his mouth…bigtime? Political Radar reports:
ABC News’ Karen Travers Reports: White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove explained the Bush Administration’s guest worker program and immigration policy at a luncheon Thursday by saying, “I don’t want my 17-year-old son to have to pick tomatoes or make beds in Las Vegas.”The statement appeared on The Corner, National Review’s blog, and has been gaining steam ever since.
White House Deputy Press Secretary Dana Perino told ABC News that the White House does not deny that Rove made the remark but claims it has been taken out of context.
Rove was speaking at a Republican women’s luncheon and was talking about the President’s immigration policy and the need for a system where willing workers get paired with willing employers, Perino said.
Rove talked about how there are so many vacant jobs in this country and how many of them are in low-skill, low-wage sectors of the economy.
Rove was not insulting those people in those jobs, the White House explained, he was, according to Perino, saying that every parent wants their child to have a high-skilled, high-wage job.
Perino said Rove addressed the fact that immigrants are coming to this country — and doing anything they can to get here — and want their children to have those same opportunities for good jobs.
It’s classic CYO. The real questions that arise are: (1)Did Rove really say it? It’s notable there is no denial from the White House. (2)Won’t this aggravate an already festering sore within the GOP over the issue of immigration? (3)Won’t this hurt the White House among those who have applauded its stance on immigration? Because more than ever the words (if you ignore the White House spin) suggest that illegal immigrants are viewed above all as a source of super-cheap labor?
It’s a very big story if true – because it higlights the deep faultline in the GOP on immigration. Surely NRO should provide more sourcing or retract it forthwith. Or are they not in the business of fact-based commentary?
It certainly is a story based on surprisingly weak sourcing. But the key is: the White House isn’t denying it which means (a) it was said OR (b)they don’t mind this message going out if it wasn’t quite said that way. In the end the White House could be in a lose-lose situation on immigration, more than ever — upsetting some within the GOP who demand a harder stance on immigration reform, but also insulting some who have so far applauded George Bush for embracing “comprehensive” immigration reform rather than just a crackdown on tightening the U.S. border.
18 Responses to “Did Karl Rove Stick His Foot In His Mouth?”
Well, there has to be a first time for everything, so I guess I shouldn’t be too shocked to find myself defending Karl Rove. He doesn’t want his 17 year-old picking tomatoes or making beds? I’m shocked, SHOCKED I tell you. I wouldn’t want to do that either, or have my children do it. Guess what? The people who pick tomatoes or make beds probably don’t want their kids to do it either, they want their kids to be doctors, scientists, businessmen. Does that mean they disrespect themselves? Of course not, it’s just natural to want your kids to have skilled, high paying jobs.
As for recognizing that immigration is seen as a source of cheap, unskilled labor, well DUH! Pretending otherwise is hypocritical, we all know that it’s the unskilled jobs that their coming to do, the so called “jobs Americans won’t do”. Now, here is where I part ways with Bush and virtually every democrat on the subject and find myself having common ground with the most conservative republicans (now THAT’S a shocker); I think the “jobs Americans won’t do” is a myth, they’re “jobs Americans wont do at virtually slave wages”. Bringing in hoards of desperate immigrants allows highly unscrupulous businessmen to lower working conditions to just this side of criminal (or worse) since they know the immigrants will accept it (it’ll always be better than what they get in their home countries) and Americans will be forced to choose between lowering their living conditions to the extreme or losing their jobs to people with lower standards. That this happens with the blessing of the government is scandalous, but understandable, since government is concerned with the bottom line of the business owners, not the ones of their workers.
Yawn, another nonissue. Seems to be a slow news week.
While I agree that this is mostly a boon to employers to widen and cheapen the labor pool, I actually see nothing wrong with young people taking jobs where they might have to “gasp!” make beds or pick tomatoes (even, Republican young people). Our youth seem to have a special spirit of entitlement from their 175$ athletic shoes to their $150 ipods. Almost every teen we know has their own cell phone and laptop, yet few parents insist that they get part-time or summer jobs to pay for these things. Imo, its called building character, and teaches our young the value of education. After a summer of making beds, what 19 year old would want to drop out of college?
We are creating a permanent underclass, and giving business an unfair advantage by allowing illegal immigrants to come and work for less than the employers would have to pay Americans. What happened to the Republicans belief in the laws of supply and demand???
I pretty much agree with you, Kim. My husband dug ditches during his summer vacations (digging foundation footings) and I cleaned up dog crap in order to get experience working with animals (planning for my veterinary career). I not only don’t have a problem with my kids doing these kinds of jobs, I will encourage it.
I think if the statement attributed to Rove had been along the lines that no one wants to aspire to such entry level, menial jobs as their career goals, and no one wants their kids to set the bar there for their goals, it would have been a fairly uncontroversial statement. And nothing wrong either, IMO, with noting that kids can’t fill all such jobs and that there probably is a labor shortage for this sector of the economy. And, noting that if immigrants wish to fill those jobs because they can at least survive rather than staying in the country of their birth where the jobs are nonexistent, then we should acknoweldge that and create a guest worker program or other immigration system which allows for this to happen.
This story does make me wonder whether Rove might be now being set up as the lame duck politico who can say controversial things to keep the extreme elements of the base rallied, while the actual GOP candidates will be more moderate and take less controversial or extremist positions. If Rove says something that implies that the purpose of immigration policy is to exploit a ready pool of workers, there are people who will applaud this opinion. Meanwhile, other people can hear his comments and dismiss him because we don’t really think that Rove has any authority to speak for anyone at this point. Bush isn’t running again and I hardly think that GOP presidential candidates are going to associate themselves with him.
Why don’t we just put the whole thing in one word, it’s not about money, it’s not about doing better, it’s about prestige.
Face it. At some level, we’re all pretty snobbish.
Rove’s speaking for a lot of people here, and it’s not just republicans. Most of us have this same idea in our heads. I don’t know if it’s good or bad in the big picture, but definitely is there.
I’m torn between congratulating him for having the balls to say it, or slapping my head for being silly enough to stop mouthing the whole “honorable work” platitude knowing he’ll be stepped on for it (and I am happy to see him stepped on…). Almost no one seems to believe that anymore, unless it’s a temporary situation on the way up.
belli,
Good points. But what’s wrong with seeing entry level jobs as being honorable but no fun, acceptable but only temporary? As I discussed with Jim S in another thread, our economy really is a pyramid structure and I don’t think there’s any way around that. I also don’t think that anyone wants to be at the bottom of the pyramid, but those jobs represent a starting point for young people, a beginning for those who’ve lived in poverty, and an entry point for immigrants into society. The need for that labor pool will always be there and admitting that none of us want to do those jobs isn’t the same thing as being disdainful of people who do the jobs. And as long as there aren’t barriers for individuals who work hard to rise above the bottom of the pyramid, I think that govt is doing it’s job (that’s not to say that I believe this is the case today: I think there ARE some barriers that still have to be dealt with).
Ahh heres another point Id like to make about politics. Does this not strike you as exactly the same thing as Nancy Pelosi’s bigger plane thing?
It does me.
But there is also a large amount of American non-immigrant youth whose parents can’t afford $175 athletic shoes and $150 ipods. And their parents are working as cashiers, waiters/waitresses, stockers, etc. And sometimes doing more than one job to make ends meet. For every illegal immigrant that has to “pick tomatoes or make beds in Las Vegas”, there’s a poor American citizen who’s doing it also or wants to do it. I see it everyday in my other line of work as a Salvation Army volunteer.
As far as Rove’s comment, I agree with the thoughts of few of you, we all think it. A non-issue as Grey said.
UIS yes it’s very much like it in the sense that it’s absolute bullshit, and that 99% of the people who will say they are “offended” by this are really just posturing to seem more righteous while knowing perfectly well it’s a dishonest attack and while most people understand the real intent behind the words and are not offended.
I have visions in my head of a inquisition type screaming “do you want your kid to end up flipping burgers???” and when the victim says the inevitable “no” scream even louder “You snobbish prick! Do you think people who do those jobs are inferior????!!!!”. Gimme a break. I don’t like Rove, I don’t like the administrations+democrats immigration policy, I don’t need these sorts of red herrings to feel that way, either.
Yeah, UIS, I think your comparison is apt but you have to give credit where credit is due: the commenters here are almost unanimously agreeing that Rove’s comments are being blown out of proportion. BTW, that’s how I felt a while back when Hillary made some similar comments about people who change our sheets or whatever it was…I mean, it’s hard not to giggle a bit when someone you dislike has one of those moments but it’s juvenile and non-productive to join the chorus of those who try to make an issue over slight verbal gaffes. So, I have to praise some of the commeters here who obviously would like Rove to take heat but they see that it is misplaced in this situation.
Of course Rove doesn’t want his kid doing those kinds of jobs. But…the reality of illegal immigration is that it isn’t just those jobs that the immigrants are taking. Are there any roofing companies that still have Americans working for them? I haven’t seen one lately.
The same is true for many construction trades that used to pay a living wage. That’s what bothers me about so much of the debate. It’s presented dishonestly in several ways. There are jobs that Americans used to get to do that are much harder for them to get today because of competition from low wage illegal immigration. In addition some of the jobs are low paying when you consider what they are. The number of illegal immigrants employed in the meat packing industry is huge. Why? It’s bloody dangerous work as well as being difficult. It’s full of serious work-related accidents as well as repetitive motion injuries. Has the industry ever looked at ways to improve the nature of what they do with better technology? Somewhat, but how much of an effort do they have to put into it while they have a ready pool of cheap labor desperate for work? These are some of the aspects of this debate that you hear very little about.
Jim S,
I think that’s a fair point and you’re right that it’s not often discussed. A tight labor market really does put more pressure on employers to create better working conditions and to pay higher wages, and loosening the labor market by allowing influx of immigrants has the opposite effect. I think we have to find a way to strike a balance (determining what level of immigration/guest workers is appropriate without flooding the labor market), and this is also an example of an area where I would support sensible govt regulations to create safe and reasonable working conditions when the market fails to create those conditions.
The Republicans belief in the laws of supply and demand has morphed into the Bush administration’s strong belief in corporatism.
I’m shocked – shocked! – to hear Karl Rove say something like this, when it simply reflects what most of those who support massive immigration and immigration “reform” really think. (Others, of course, support “reform” because they also want race-based political power).
Jim S- I could not agree more. What I find even more irritating than the xenophobia of the right, is the illusory argument from the left that this is a second civil rights movement. The loss of middle-class blue collar jobs is devastating those who work in the trades, and are being replaced and undercut by illegal immigrants. Thus the growth in inequality as many are forced to work two full-time jobs just to get by.
This is really more of a story about the culture of the elites of the United Staes and the culture of DC.
Remember, DC is a city almost devoid of blue collar whites. Only only native born Americans who do blue collar work in DC are blacks. Thus, in Karl Rove’s world, all blue collar is the work of minorities. In Nancy Pelosi’s world, blue collar whites just do not exist (remember her Congressional District is also lacking in blue collar whites.
Both Karl Rove and Nancy Pelosi are hit up every day by white upper middle class families for jobs as underpaid interns in DC. Why would people who live in such a world believe that there are whites who would be willing to work in beef packing, brick laying, or hotel room cleaning.
I guarantee that when Karl Rove visits a place like Davenport, Iowa he is shocked to see whites cleaning rooms, bussing tables, and eotkinh in construction.
The thing is that with globalization, the collapse of the manufacturing and auto industries in the US and outsourcing of middle class jobs, we may see a lot more Americans who are willing to take these jobs. They may not be thrilled about taking them, but not every one can go to college and graduate school. Who is looking out for the blue collar worker?
Kim said
Of course I think she knows the answer and that no one is really looking out for them.