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The Forgotten Racism in the Duke Lacrosse Case
Even if the rape charges fall apart, there is a lot standing in the way before we can justly label the players “innocent.”
21 Responses to “The Forgotten Racism in the Duke Lacrosse Case”
So college kids act puerile, thus are nor innocents? Are you a Falwellian?
Well… though I put myself at risk of being labelled as a racist, I would like to remind everyone that everyone is free to believe what they want and say what they want (to an extent), even if those views are unpopular. That being said, we also have to right to think them bigots and not associate with them.
Nasty things were said to be sure… but making up rape charges would seem to be the greater offense…
You keep on using that word. But I do not think it means what you think it means.
I disagree with you so often, David, that I’m happy to find a point on which we can agree. I think it’s pretty clear by now that no rape occurred. The DNA evidence, the repeated changes to her story made by the woman, the alibi, the statements made by the other stripper at the party, all those things tell me that no rape actually occurred. But, as you say, these kids still did and said some pretty despicable things, and there was ample evidence, based on the types of behavior you describe, to justify the initial investigation into the matter. I’ve got nothing against strippers or the men who hire them, but the drunken actions of many of the players were entirely inappropriate.
The Duke lacrosse students may be innocent of the crime. But they aren’t innocent is terms of their behaviour. Atleast they weren’t lynched for messing with a stripper like Emmett Till. I wonder if they whistled at the entertainer.
LOL I agree with PatHMV on this one.
Wow! Rudi and I agree on something, who would’ve thunk it!
I really didn’t follow this case. I felt either I had to feel sorry for a bunch of asshole frat guys who more than likely have date raped some girl if not these girls, or I had to feel bad for women too stupid to know better than to take their clothes off in front of 30 drunken strangers at their house. A situation full of despicable characters all around.
From 60 minutes you can find the following quote from the other dancer.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/60minutes/main2082140_page3.shtml
“Asked how she responded, Roberts says, “I don’t know if I can say that on 60 Minutes.
“I called him a little [expletive] white boy,” she recalls laughing. “And how he couldn’t get it on his own and had to pay for it. So, he was mad. And it ended with him callin’ me the n-word. And it echoed, so you heard n….. once, and then you heard, n….., n….., n….. .
Roberts acknowledges that her taunting provoked that remark but tells Bradley, “But when I think about it again, I say he could’ve said black girl. You know what I mean? He could’ve said black girl. He didn’t have to go that route.”
”
Now, as a black man, I know very well that “little [expletive] white boy” is meant as a racial slur. Hell, I knew it was a racial slur, when a member of my varsity basketball team [back in 1986-87, god I'm old
] who was upset at the fact that we had lost a game to an all white team with less talent then ours used the following as racial slur in the locker room “I CAN’T BELIEVE WE’VE LOST TO THESE WEAK ASS WHITE BOYS..”
Give me a break, to me these Duke guys responded in kind and since I do not believe any violence occurred, I believe this was just one of those name calling incident that occur when people try to one up each other in a verbal fight.
I’ll even go further, when I read the joke about thanking your grand father for the cotton shirt, I laugh. I had the same reaction when Chris Rock said it. Hell, I happen to agree with Chirs Rock on at least one point. “I love black people but I hate niggers” anybody that saw that routine will konw that this last line got one of the biggest aplause from a croud that was majoritarily black.
As for putting these guys down for hiring a stripper, give me a break. Maybe I am saying this because I live in montreal (lots of strip clubs here) but you would not beleive the huge lineups of women that I have seen outside of male strips clubs just waiting to get in. I am to think they are depraved as well. That make me think of my first year in university where the house next to mine (6 girls) had a party, and at one point in the party they put in a Chip & Dale video. Funny thing, I still liked those girls, I did not think they were scum because they like to see naked men. I would even go further and say that poeple that are so quick to judge, you better not have watched the “The Full Monty” and laughed, if you did, your hipocrisy is showing.
A big part of these debates reminds me of a family barbecue. I got into an argument with 2 cousins and my brother about a add that one of my cousins found racist and I did not. Within seconds, it was 3 against one as my brother and another cousin took her side. (It was a gum commercial where a black guy dressed like a pack of gum was trying to hit on a couple of girls. when a girl told him she had a boyfried that was a doctor, his reply was that this was nothing, because he had two jobs, refering to the taste and something else I no longer remember about the gum). Well to make this long story short, it was 3 against me, but later that evening when I talked to my brother and other cousin about it, all of the sudden they no longer believed the commercial was racist!!! Even though I argued brillantly
I realized that I was not the one that convinced them, they were just putting on a show for the others that could hear our conversation!!!!
I feel that there’s lots a lots of people trying to put on a show in this case, after all its always safe to make fun of whitey, especially if whitey is rich.
Oh no, I used the word whitey and according to http://dictionary.reference.com the word means:
whit·ey also Whit·ey (hwÄ«’tÄ“, wÄ«’-) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. whit·eys also Whit·eys Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a white person or white people.
Well I guess that makes me a racist afer all… Not
Live long and prosper
jack
If the case was completely BOGUS or weak the Grand Jury shouldn’t have brought charges. With the (now) available physical evidence, it appears the Duke players will be found ‘not guilty’. But, this isn’t the same as innocent.
Rudi, I haven’t followed the case that closely, but remember that the prosecutor is responsible for presenting evidence to the grand jury. The D.A. may not have presented all the then-available evidence to the grand jury, such as the exculpatory DNA results. Hard to blame them for acting on information which the D.A. may have intentionally presented in a biased manner. Or did the grand jury indict before any DNA results come back at all?
An x-rated Chip & Dale video would be just a little depraved, wouldn’t it?
LOL
Davebo- puerile is childish or immature. College kids using epithets is a perf ex of the term. It does not mean they are rapists nor racists- merely idiots. That is what is a given. To prove rape or racism a bit more is needed.
Maybe they were invited to the Clemson party.
PatHMV: the old saying is that a good prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich, so one should not infer from the fact that they were indicted that there was a whole of of “there” there.
I agree with cosmoetica on this one. They were being assholes, which is totally unlike drunken college jocks, isn’t it? They used racist slurs? Yeah, so did the stripper, I don’t see anyone calling her a racist.
Assuming there wasn’t a rape involved then a stripper gave and recieved verbal abuse in the course of her job. Nothing against the profesion, but complaining about that is like becoming a garbage man and then complaining about the smell.
They might be racists, and they might not be. None of the characters in this little theatre looks particularly sympathetic. Again, if the rape charge is false, then the real badguy is the stripper. I don’t care how mean they were, trying to get someone jailed for a rape they didn’t commit is reprehensible.
Uhm, “a little depraved” you got a point, I knew I liked these girls for a reason.
cosmoetica,
Thx for explaining your first post, I must admit I did not understand it until now. I almost agree with you, but as they say people in glass house can’t throw stones, so if there was not violence, I can’t be too hard on this guys.
I got drunk at least once and less than 10,000
in my life and it might surprise some people to learn that I have acted like an idiot some of those time, yet I managed to become a respectable adult and a not so bad contributor to society.
I think when looking at things like racism context is important, from my reading about the case, part of the argument was about $400 that were paid for dances not rendered. I would be mad to. In fact, I would even say that these strippers were lucky to be with a bunch of rich white kids, I don’t think they would have dared pulling something like that with say the basketball team or a group of black students. You can be sure that under similar circumstances, the “N” word would have been on of the mildest expletive they would have heard. Any body that knows a bit about Rap (and I’m not talking about the censured stuff you get on radio or MTV) knows that when they use the “B” and “H” rappers are not referring Condoleezza Rice or Oprah Winfrey, they are referring to the likes of the 2 strippers.
No way they would have dare to cheat a group of black guys from their money, and there is no way the “N” word would not have been used, hell, it would have been used even among the black guys group.
People seem to forget about context, racism is more than just using a racial slur when one is upset, it totally depends on what the word means to the person who said it (hence black people are not considered racist for using the “N” word). Given the state of society today, some of these words have made it to the main stream, I have been around many times when white guys who sing along to rap lyrics and use the “N” when the song dictates it! I must admit, the first few times this occurred, I felt weird about it, but eventually, I figured what the hell, this is the artists and culture that they like, some of them even seem to wish they could be black, probably because they want rhythm and heard about the myth which is not a myth by the way;) (Ok, I know this is a shameless plug, but in a sea of negative stereotypes, its good to have a few that work for us). Context is a big reason why I am not ready to condemn these guys as racist just based on what they said, in fact I feel that the crack about the cotton shirt which comes from Chris Rock tells me a bit about them. I don’t believe racist people sit around memorizing punch line from Chris Rock’s monologues.
end of pontification.
Live long and prosper.
jack
[...] Even if the rape charges fall apart, there is a lot standing in the way before we can justly label the players innocent. – More – [...]
“They might be racists, and they might not be”
I’ve been to Duke to visit a friend of mine who attended there. The guys are almost all racists, they drop the n-bomb during casual conversation like its nothing. Both of us are from California and we were stunned about the general attitudes of the entire area. Its a real eye opener to visit the rest of your country and you learn to appreciate your home state.
Mike Nifong was reelected with 95% of the black vote. This was after it was known:
1) The accuser had made multiple mutually exclusive statements
2) There was no DNA match to any Duke Lax player
3) At least one of the indicted has a rock solid alibi
4) The accusers had no physical injuries
Yet he managed to get 95% of the black vote. I think that is a telling sign of racism. Much more than using the N word after one of the strippers baited them in to it.
God site. Thanks!