Kim:
Put the clues together and you’ll realize that this wasn’t some well-meaning administration that got fooled by the CIA, but one that contained a lot of people who were determined to tie Iraq to 9/11 so that we could justify the invasion. Read Michael Isikoff’s Hubrisif you want to know how this war was sold to us. I know you’re a lot smarter than that last post.

And why is it not conceivable that some members of the administration were determined to make the case for going to war with Iraq AND the CIA also was fooled by the evidence that they had and their faulty analysis of it?

Kim, I’ll give your comment right back at ya…you’re smarter than that last post too.

Put the clues together and you’ll realize that this wasn’t some well-meaning administration that got fooled by the CIA, but one that contained a lot of people who were determined to tie Iraq to 9/11 so that we could justify the invasion. Read Michael Isikoff’s Hubrisif you want to know how this war was sold to us. I know you’re a lot smarter than that last post.

What about killing hundreds of thousands in a war based on hyped intel? Isn’t that about as immoral as you can get?

Kim,
First of all, there’s considerable debate on whether the intel was hyped or just poorly analyzed, and second, there could still be moral reasons to bring a country to war (if for example, one believed that more people’s lives would be lost or ruined by inaction than by action-by continuing the sanctions, for example. And even if Bush and the neocons proved to be wrong about that, it still doesn’t mean that this wasn’t their belief or intention at the outset.)

What about killing hundreds of thousands in a war based on hyped intel? Isn’t that about as immoral as you can get?

And while I certainly agree with your statement about cruelty to animals, I still feel that a lot of people go too far in equating animals with humans (and I say this as a veterinarian and an animal lover.) Prevent cruelty to animals, absolutely, but it’s rather convoluted when some people feel it is perfectly justifiable to kill humans during certain stages of their development or lifespan but that we ought not to kill animals at all.

MvdG- Yes, that is what I believe as well. They say that one sign of a future mass-murderer is a child that abuses animals for kicks.

To the last commenter: I intentionally used the word “under-evolved” in order to be humorously provocative. But I would say that compassion — and even, as in this case, compassion for animals — is a sign of a higher humanity.

In some parts of the USA there are too many deer and they need to be hunted. The meat can go to soup kitchens. I had a deer accident a few years ago:

My deer decided to run across a 4-lane highway late at night. I happened to be going around 60 mph on that highway at the same time. I didn’t have time to think about what to do but remember saying or thinking “Oh s— a deer!” I swerved and missed the deer but my car went out-of-control and, when one tire regained traction, suddenly turned left, crossed the passing lane and smashed head-first into the median (airbag went off). Then it was hit broadside by a semi that had been following, braking and trying to avoid me. Somebody helped me climb out the passenger window and over the median. Both my car and the semi were towed away. I got checked out at the emergency room at Jewish Hospital – fortunately the nasty bruises and aches were my only damage. Good thing my dog wasn’t in the back seat of the car that night! Since deer cannot be cited and do not carry insurance, my insurance company ended up paying for thousands of dollars of damage to the semi as well as paying out the total value of my car. That’s the only really bad auto accident I’ve had. I would just as soon not have another!

But keep in mind hunters and anglers are at the forefront of effective environmental conservation. Whether you are a fisherman or not, this is a fantastic organization to support.

Those interested in this issue may want to read the fascinating story of Temple Grandin, an autistic individual who fought for more humane treatment of beef cattle.

I read her book.. Can’t recall the title but something about “Animals in Translation”.

Were it not for the tragedy of her downs syndrome I’d have demanded a refund. She certainly did some good work in the meat packing industry, but most of the book just struck me as idiotic.

During high school and college I lived in the South and almost every male I knew owned a gun and went hunting. It really bothered me, but I think its a matter of individual conscience. There is absolutely no excuse for animal cruelty, though. If you’ve ever been really close to a pet, you know they have the same emotions we do. I believe that is also true of farm animals and animals in the wild.

BTW, Michael Stickings, thanks for the story about Perky. It does sound a little farfetched, but is heartwarming anyway.

Personally I prefer to sneak up on the critters and hit ‘em over the head with a rock. It’s more sporting that way–and there’s no shot damage to spoil the meat. Mmmmm, Bambi…nothing tastes quite as good as that free-range organic meat! Then there’s those coyotes that keep eating the family pets…we asked them nicely to stop, but they didn’t listen.

Anyone who throws an undressed bird in the fridge and leaves it there for two days isn’t a “food” hunter or much of a hunter at all, they’re a moron–one courting food poisoning. Such stupidity carries its own reward in that regard. And the wife taking it to the wildlife sanctuary for thou$ands in treatment? These folks put the “fun” in dysfunctional!

While we still eat from other living beings we will never be completely free from hurting, true, but we can try to minimize our damage. Getting rid of blood sports and restricting animal killings to controlled environments (and then striving to better those conditions) would be nice.

C.Stanley, I see your point certainly, but I find myself rather skeptical. It seems just a tad convenient that those animals people hunt are always edible or look nifty as a rug. No one seems to be going after excess porcupines. Also, this does not address the MANY cases where animals are raised to be shot ala Cheney.