Comments on: Major Battle in Iraq: 250 ‘militiamen’ killed http://themoderatevoice.com/10540/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:52:43 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: grognard http://themoderatevoice.com/10540/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-47680 grognard Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:18:12 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/#comment-47680 Wow, that was interesting, looks like the local Iraqi units did absolutely no patrolling in their area. That means they are not willing to expose themselves to danger and the local militia elements can build up right under their noses. Needless to say this is probably happening elsewhere, in “peacefulâ€? areas. This also explains why there was no official pronouncements about the operation, it was a nasty surprise not a planned attack. Wow, that was interesting, looks like the local Iraqi units did absolutely no patrolling in their area. That means they are not willing to expose themselves to danger and the local militia elements can build up right under their noses. Needless to say this is probably happening elsewhere, in “peacefulâ€? areas. This also explains why there was no official pronouncements about the operation, it was a nasty surprise not a planned attack.

]]> By: Gray http://themoderatevoice.com/10540/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-47659 Gray Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:07:19 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/#comment-47659 <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/30/world/middleeast/30iraq.html" rel="nofollow">The NYT reports details of the battle:</a> "BAGHDAD, Jan. 29 —Iraqi forces were surprised and nearly overwhelmed by the ferocity of an obscure renegade militia in a weekend battle near the holy city of Najaf and needed far more help from American forces than previously disclosed, American and Iraqi officials said Monday. They said American ground troops — and not just air support as reported Sunday — were mobilized to help the Iraqi soldiers, who appeared to have dangerously underestimated the strength of the militia, which calls itself the Soldiers of Heaven and had amassed hundreds of heavily armed fighters." "“This group had more capabilities than the government,� said Abdul Hussein Abtan, the deputy governor of Najaf Province, at a news conference." "Among the troubling questions raised is how hundreds of armed men were able to set up such an elaborate encampment, which Iraqi officials said included tunnels, trenches and a series of blockades, only 10 miles northeast of Najaf. After the fight was over, Iraqi officials said they discovered at least two antiaircraft weapons as well as 40 heavy machine guns." "The Iraqis initially sent a battalion from their Eighth Army Division, along with police forces, but they were quickly overwhelmed, according to an Iraqi commander at the scene. The battalion began to retreat but was soon surrounded and pinned down, and had to call in American air support to keep the enemy from overrunning its position." Well, contrary to the first reports, this doesn't sound as if Iraqi forces fared well in combat. A batallion almost overrun? That's between 500 and 1000 troops who were not able to hold their positions against insurgents attacking. That's pathetic. The NYT reports details of the battle:
“BAGHDAD, Jan. 29 —Iraqi forces were surprised and nearly overwhelmed by the ferocity of an obscure renegade militia in a weekend battle near the holy city of Najaf and needed far more help from American forces than previously disclosed, American and Iraqi officials said Monday.
They said American ground troops — and not just air support as reported Sunday — were mobilized to help the Iraqi soldiers, who appeared to have dangerously underestimated the strength of the militia, which calls itself the Soldiers of Heaven and had amassed hundreds of heavily armed fighters.”
““This group had more capabilities than the government,â€? said Abdul Hussein Abtan, the deputy governor of Najaf Province, at a news conference.”
“Among the troubling questions raised is how hundreds of armed men were able to set up such an elaborate encampment, which Iraqi officials said included tunnels, trenches and a series of blockades, only 10 miles northeast of Najaf. After the fight was over, Iraqi officials said they discovered at least two antiaircraft weapons as well as 40 heavy machine guns.”
“The Iraqis initially sent a battalion from their Eighth Army Division, along with police forces, but they were quickly overwhelmed, according to an Iraqi commander at the scene. The battalion began to retreat but was soon surrounded and pinned down, and had to call in American air support to keep the enemy from overrunning its position.”

Well, contrary to the first reports, this doesn’t sound as if Iraqi forces fared well in combat. A batallion almost overrun? That’s between 500 and 1000 troops who were not able to hold their positions against insurgents attacking. That’s pathetic.

]]> By: Rudi http://themoderatevoice.com/10540/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-47512 Rudi Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:57:54 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/#comment-47512 <em>Shiite on Shiite violence? Indeed, not impossible. I’ll go with Juan’s theory for now.</em> The latest incidents, in Karbala and Najaf, have been in Shia strong holds, yet our spin is to blame Sunnis and the Iranians. Shias are fighting each other, now and for years, but we get stories that the Sunnis are attacking Najaf. Google Basra for Shia on Shia violence. Sadr's arrest warrant was for the murder of another Shia cleric. Steven Vincent, a conservative pro-Iraq reporter, was murdered in Basra reporting on Shia militias before the MSM, both liberal and wingnut, even were aware of Basra. Shiite on Shiite violence? Indeed, not impossible. I’ll go with Juan’s theory for now.
The latest incidents, in Karbala and Najaf, have been in Shia strong holds, yet our spin is to blame Sunnis and the Iranians. Shias are fighting each other, now and for years, but we get stories that the Sunnis are attacking Najaf. Google Basra for Shia on Shia violence. Sadr’s arrest warrant was for the murder of another Shia cleric. Steven Vincent, a conservative pro-Iraq reporter, was murdered in Basra reporting on Shia militias before the MSM, both liberal and wingnut, even were aware of Basra.

]]> By: grognard http://themoderatevoice.com/10540/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-47507 grognard Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:44:53 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/#comment-47507 I was suspicious of the 250 killed claim, that is a fairly major operation against a large group that should have had more official pronouncements on government forces clearing out strongholds prior to the attack. Najaf is a Shiite area, the Sunni insurgent claim is also hard to believe, it does make sense that some Shiites would claim Sunni involvement in order to cover up internal Shiite divisions. Don’t count out Iranian arms, I doubt the weapons were directly provided by Iran to a group that detests that country but it looks like they were able to get some sort of anti aircraft weapon to shoot down the copter. Iraq is awash in weaponry so getting your hand on something like this only requires money. Shiite groups are splintering, there have been clashes between Sadr and SCIRI, and no Shiite leader has the national stature to stop the internal disputes anymore. I was suspicious of the 250 killed claim, that is a fairly major operation against a large group that should have had more official pronouncements on government forces clearing out strongholds prior to the attack. Najaf is a Shiite area, the Sunni insurgent claim is also hard to believe, it does make sense that some Shiites would claim Sunni involvement in order to cover up internal Shiite divisions. Don’t count out Iranian arms, I doubt the weapons were directly provided by Iran to a group that detests that country but it looks like they were able to get some sort of anti aircraft weapon to shoot down the copter. Iraq is awash in weaponry so getting your hand on something like this only requires money. Shiite groups are splintering, there have been clashes between Sadr and SCIRI, and no Shiite leader has the national stature to stop the internal disputes anymore.

]]> By: Gray http://themoderatevoice.com/10540/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-47505 Gray Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:09:03 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/major-battle-in-iraq-250-militiamen-killed/#comment-47505 Confusing, isn't it? This begs the question: Do the US really want to be sucked into such religious struggles, where its almost impossible to say who are the good and who the bad guys? Maybe it was a good idea to support mainstream Shia, but then it also has to be considered that the Us now has made some new enemies among the 'army of heaven' fanatics. Is it really in the US' best interest to get involved in these sectarian infights? What's in it for the US, isn't this a lose/lose situation? You know my opinion: Get out as fast as you can. Let the sects resolve their differences on their own. Confusing, isn’t it? This begs the question: Do the US really want to be sucked into such religious struggles, where its almost impossible to say who are the good and who the bad guys? Maybe it was a good idea to support mainstream Shia, but then it also has to be considered that the Us now has made some new enemies among the ‘army of heaven’ fanatics.

Is it really in the US’ best interest to get involved in these sectarian infights? What’s in it for the US, isn’t this a lose/lose situation?

You know my opinion: Get out as fast as you can. Let the sects resolve their differences on their own.

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