Comments on: My Evening With Randall http://themoderatevoice.com/10370/my-evening-with-randall/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Sun, 27 May 2012 22:49:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: David Schraub http://themoderatevoice.com/10370/my-evening-with-randall/comment-page-1/#comment-45328 David Schraub Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:13:46 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/race/my-evening-with-randall/#comment-45328 While Professor Kennedy gave a rather nuanced approach to the subject (the students who protested thought he was too quick to sanction abandoning the community), he did recognize the need for racial solidarity--to prevent free-riders and solve the collective action problem when the topic is overcoming racial oppression. The example he used is the Montgomery Bus Boycott: While many (most) Blacks participated willingly, Black leaders used aggressive ostracization and coercive techniques to insure the cooperation of some of their more reticent colleagues (who, by riding the bus, would reap whatever benefits of the boycott without having to bear any of the costs). Had they not done this, the boycott probably wouldn't have worked. Were they justified? I think obviously yes. If one recognizes that racial oppression still is a serious issue in America (and it is), then the collective action problem remains an issue, and Professor Kennedy's topic remains salient. While Professor Kennedy gave a rather nuanced approach to the subject (the students who protested thought he was too quick to sanction abandoning the community), he did recognize the need for racial solidarity–to prevent free-riders and solve the collective action problem when the topic is overcoming racial oppression.

The example he used is the Montgomery Bus Boycott: While many (most) Blacks participated willingly, Black leaders used aggressive ostracization and coercive techniques to insure the cooperation of some of their more reticent colleagues (who, by riding the bus, would reap whatever benefits of the boycott without having to bear any of the costs). Had they not done this, the boycott probably wouldn’t have worked. Were they justified? I think obviously yes.

If one recognizes that racial oppression still is a serious issue in America (and it is), then the collective action problem remains an issue, and Professor Kennedy’s topic remains salient.

]]> By: BeYourGuest http://themoderatevoice.com/10370/my-evening-with-randall/comment-page-1/#comment-45249 BeYourGuest Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:51:45 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/race/my-evening-with-randall/#comment-45249 Both sides have every reason to exaggerate the actual effects of affirmative action. I suspect the effects are really quite small. But I can't find much beyond bloviation about the subject. Does anyone know of serious studies with hard data? Both sides have every reason to exaggerate the actual effects of affirmative action.

I suspect the effects are really quite small. But I can’t find much beyond bloviation about the subject. Does anyone know of serious studies with hard data?

]]> By: CStanley http://themoderatevoice.com/10370/my-evening-with-randall/comment-page-1/#comment-45227 CStanley Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:43:42 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/race/my-evening-with-randall/#comment-45227 What Lynx said. What Lynx said.

]]> By: Lynx http://themoderatevoice.com/10370/my-evening-with-randall/comment-page-1/#comment-45218 Lynx Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:13:43 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/race/my-evening-with-randall/#comment-45218 Oh boy, the words "Race Betrayal" reek of David Duke to me. I won't rush to judge because I don't know prof. Kennedy's ideas so maybe there is a deeper meaning behind that creepy term. I'm not buying that black people "betraying their race" is any less stupid than a white man betraying his. White people do not (with extremist exceptions) think of themselves as a collective. I can't "betray" my race because I have no alliance to my race, my race is as important as my shoe size. I do understand why blacks (and you'll excuse the black/white, it's shorter than Caucasian/African American) would feel more like a collective, as they were oppressed as a collective, but while they still imagine than you can "betray" your race as if you "owed" your race something, then they'll never be truly free. Now it's nice if you are a successful person from a traditional unsuccessful group to go back and try to help out others. Very much worthy of praise. Not worthy of criticism if you don't though. Frankly, I think our true "race" is class. A black person who is born into the upper classes (and they do exist) has a hell of a lot more in common with their rich white neighbors than their poor black employees. I am against affirmative action, for several reasons. Not just the traditional black/white. People forget that affirmative action goes beyond that divide. It also tries to benefit women, or holds back Asians. The only affirmative action I might approve of would be one based exclusively on poverty, with an orientation to get poorer people to rise up, regardless of race or gender. Even that affirmative action makes me a tad leery, but it seems a lot more fair than another color bar. Oh boy, the words “Race Betrayal” reek of David Duke to me. I won’t rush to judge because I don’t know prof. Kennedy’s ideas so maybe there is a deeper meaning behind that creepy term. I’m not buying that black people “betraying their race” is any less stupid than a white man betraying his. White people do not (with extremist exceptions) think of themselves as a collective. I can’t “betray” my race because I have no alliance to my race, my race is as important as my shoe size. I do understand why blacks (and you’ll excuse the black/white, it’s shorter than Caucasian/African American) would feel more like a collective, as they were oppressed as a collective, but while they still imagine than you can “betray” your race as if you “owed” your race something, then they’ll never be truly free.

Now it’s nice if you are a successful person from a traditional unsuccessful group to go back and try to help out others. Very much worthy of praise. Not worthy of criticism if you don’t though. Frankly, I think our true “race” is class. A black person who is born into the upper classes (and they do exist) has a hell of a lot more in common with their rich white neighbors than their poor black employees.

I am against affirmative action, for several reasons. Not just the traditional black/white. People forget that affirmative action goes beyond that divide. It also tries to benefit women, or holds back Asians. The only affirmative action I might approve of would be one based exclusively on poverty, with an orientation to get poorer people to rise up, regardless of race or gender. Even that affirmative action makes me a tad leery, but it seems a lot more fair than another color bar.

]]> By: Sam http://themoderatevoice.com/10370/my-evening-with-randall/comment-page-1/#comment-45172 Sam Sat, 20 Jan 2007 01:40:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/race/my-evening-with-randall/#comment-45172 College students are college students. I've never been to any actual public discussion on a college campus that didn't devolve into a screaming match. At least not one that gave an open forum to any students that cared to show up. College students are college students. I’ve never been to any actual public discussion on a college campus that didn’t devolve into a screaming match. At least not one that gave an open forum to any students that cared to show up.

]]> By: Marlowecan http://themoderatevoice.com/10370/my-evening-with-randall/comment-page-1/#comment-45162 Marlowecan Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:24:54 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/race/my-evening-with-randall/#comment-45162 That was an interesting encounter. Of course, Kennedy's linking 1865 racists with contemporary critics of Affirmative Action is a specious argument, and he could have been sliced and diced pretty quickly if his questioner was on his toes. You make a very interesting point when you say: "I've never seen a meeting with an outside speaker at Carleton result in such bitter animosity. And it's really demoralizing." Unfortunately, I have seen such scenes repeated again and again in academe. It is extraordinary the absence of tolerance for opposing or even mildly different (Kennedy is hardly a supporter of white privilege) views in our centres of higher learning. Academia makes the blogosphere wars between left and right look like a Sunday School picnic in comparison. That was an interesting encounter. Of course, Kennedy’s linking 1865 racists with contemporary critics of Affirmative Action is a specious argument, and he could have been sliced and diced pretty quickly if his questioner was on his toes.

You make a very interesting point when you say:
“I’ve never seen a meeting with an outside speaker at Carleton result in such bitter animosity. And it’s really demoralizing.”

Unfortunately, I have seen such scenes repeated again and again in academe. It is extraordinary the absence of tolerance for opposing or even mildly different (Kennedy is hardly a supporter of white privilege) views in our centres of higher learning. Academia makes the blogosphere wars between left and right look like a Sunday School picnic in comparison.

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